No Documentation ? Why don't we do it ourselfes !

[ElTchoupi]

Hi,

I've been reading a few posts lately and it seems that TV3D is either slowing down or dying because of other priorities (Please, no troll on this or on my poor English!)

It's also obvious that a lot of people are using this great tool "as is".

It seems that 2 points are often coming back:

1) The on-going TV6.5 is still missing some parts
=> About this, I can't say: I could use TV enough (I'm a few month young on this) to have any problem. Anyway, this can only be completed by the "real team"..

2) There is no Documentation on 6.5, but everybody uses it because it's so much better than the last one...
=> About this, I have an opinion: It SUX.
Now, TV is (IMHO) still a great tool (look at all those incredible screenshots!!)

BUT !
There is a WIKI, which could contain all known information about TV6.5 (seems to me that classes information are 6.1 or maybe 6.3 old).
I think that this wiki, if it was filled enough, could be used as a documentation (instead of being obliged to search in the forum "how to ...").

For my part, I work with C# and my tools are this forum, Reflector and the 6.1 Doc to figure out the context.
I believe this "self-made" documentation can be done by the community
I also believe that this could probably refresh hope in TV as when a newcomer asks "Do you really think I can use TV for my project as it has no doc", we'll be able to answer "Go check out the Wiki, it has (almost) everything !"

I'm probably not doing it the best way, but I already created the "TVMesh.SetParent()" method page (soooo many posts about this in the forum, not even ONE in the wiki!!).
I'll continue as much as I can but
ANY HELP IS WELCOME !

PS: To any dev team member: anything that could help on filling this documentation is of course also welcome (Even an empty XML documentation file created by Visual Studio would give us a list of all public classes and methods and would be very appreciated!)

Lots of people have proposed to help on finishing TV.. why don't we start where we can actually do it !!?!

--
ElTchoupi

[AriusEso]

http://www.truevision3d.com/ds/docs/frames.html?frmname=topic&frmfile=index.html

[Raine]

I actually had an idea about some kind of documentation for tv3d. I guess it's time I commit some time to it and see if people find it useful. I agree about the wiki, contributing regularly would be awesome, still it's a bit of a time sink if you really get into it.

[ElTchoupi]

Thanks Arius, I had no idea this existed ! Here is our list !

I just hope some people will see how this goes and will help:
if each TV user fills one page...

Anyway, I will do it so I will know where I can find the information !

[EagleEye]

I really wouldn't call that site any sort of real documentation.

It tells you absolutely nothing more than the object browser does.

For example:

http://www.truevision3d.com/ds/docs/frames.html?frmname=topic&frmfile=CTVScreen2DImmediate__Draw_FilledBox@float@float@float@float@int@int@int@int.html

On that specific class, it shows the constructors for the method, with the variables... hell, intelisense tells me that!

What it DOES NOT tell you is what "color1" is, or "color2", etc... Now, I know what they mean from my own personal experience, but seriously... real documentation describes what these things mean and how to use them.

All this documentation site is, is an automatic rip from the TV DLL... I think what people really want is not just the constructors, member variables, etc... they want to know HOW to use it.  What the parameters mean in these methods, etc.

[ElTchoupi]

That's why I tried to motivate people filling the Wiki: the place is dedicated to "How can I do that" and not just the parameters list.
The point is that parameter's name aren't explicit enough to deduce what is their role... but we need them anyway: lots of methods are deprecated in 6.5 but our main information source (this forum!) can't say that: you'll have to check it by yourself..
So in my point of view, any information source is welcome !

PS: I've been quit busy lately, but I didn't give up on filling this wiki...

[darqSHADOW]

I've been spending considerable time on filling out the documentation.  It's a slow process with the massive # of params, methods, and classes that TV3D contains -- but I'm getting there.  While I'm doing this I am also filling out the various "how-to" chapters that explain how the basics of TV3D works.  All of this is slowly coming together, but it just takes time.  I have also added a wiki-link at the bottom of every web-based doc page that links to a specific topic in the wiki, this allows people to "fill in the blanks" or correct errors in the documentation.  (Much the way MSDN works today.)

I should have some updates this month, just buried with Christmas season preps at the office right now.  (Anyone ever added 2400 new products in 2 weeks to an existing eCommerce/Fulfillment setup, ugh, this is a nightmare.)

More news soon, we're not dead yet...  =)

John

[EagleEye]

DARQ!!!  Hey, nice to see you!

Please don't take my words as being unkind... the documentation really is just a rip of the DLL's members and methods, etc... and it's nothing you couldn't find out by looking in the Object Browser in VS... (Not sure about how VB6 displays that stuff... for IDEs without an object browser like the one in VS2003+ I'm sure the site gives some benefit to those users)...

What would be GREAT is if that site allowed wiki-style editing... or if it could be exported to a wiki.  That way the entire community could go in and comment on all of the different classes, etc...

[sybixsus]

I should have some updates this month

Updates to documentation only or a long-awaited new release?

Anyone ever added 2400 new products in 2 weeks to an existing eCommerce/Fulfillment setup

Nope. Ever had to cancel your beta testing and risk damaging a four year, six figure investment because you've been promised bug fixes time after time which don't materialize?

[cactus3d]

Woooww with that budget I think it was quite unwise to pick tv3d (as 6.5 is an unfinished product)

In my opinion at this stage tv3d is just for hobbyists (such as myself, but I havent had the time even for that) or projects with very little/no budget
But please lets not start a war on that.

So.... I remember there was going to be a book on TV, I even downloaded (somewhere here in the forum) a (very good) chapter of it, how is this going?

[]s

[sybixsus]

But please lets not start a war on that.

You'll get no war started by me. I just noticed that we're always hearing about all the problems the dev team have, so I thought I'd share one of mine.

[darqSHADOW]

Please don't take my words as being unkind... the documentation really is just a rip of the DLL's members and methods, etc... and it's nothing you couldn't find out by looking in the Object Browser in VS... (Not sure about how VB6 displays that stuff... for IDEs without an object browser like the one in VS2003+ I'm sure the site gives some benefit to those users)...

I agree, the initial release of the docs (that you see linked above) are just the first rip through the DLL via Sandcastle.  Now that I've got the doc pipeline knocked out we've really started getting things filled in.  Took a bit to get images, static content pages, and the like to all work properly -- while linking across all pages.  Overall the new docs are VERY nice, and include CHM, Help2, and XML (for built-in Intellisense popups during dev).

John

[EagleEye]

I agree, the initial release of the docs (that you see linked above) are just the first rip through the DLL via Sandcastle.  Now that I've got the doc pipeline knocked out we've really started getting things filled in.  Took a bit to get images, static content pages, and the like to all work properly -- while linking across all pages.  Overall the new docs are VERY nice, and include CHM, Help2, and XML (for built-in Intellisense popups during dev).

John

Well, as far as I'm concerned, it's just refreshing to know that work is being done, and that bigger and better things are coming.

It's not my place to dictate to anyone how they plan their lives.  I know Darq works HARD on everything he does... it's just that "everything he does" is a lot of stuff.  I know how that goes.  Working a 40 or 50 hour week, coding at your "real job", makes it far less likely you'll want to do more coding when you get home.  Plus you can typically add kids, a wife (or the pursuit of one), and other household things to the list... there's very little time left in the day.

While I'd love to see the new stuff coming down the pipe, if there's one thing I know about Darq is that he does NOT release things before they are at least 90% ready.

So... I'm content to work on the other parts of my game (of which there are many), and wait.