Status of 6.5?

[Norb]

It can't be vapourware given that hundreds of users are currently using it and getting updates. So it can creep in to your mind if you like, but the evidence to the contrary is all around you.

I just wish everyone would stop bitching, if you want it now, support the product. Otherwise shut up an wait patiently( like the majority of the other free users ). Beta access is a perk for CUSTOMERS. You should think yourselves lucky that there is even going to be a free version. Thats a testament to how much the devs care about this community. Few companies would release a product of this size for free with only a watermark as a limitation. But as far as I care, if you haven't paid for it, you have no right to whine about it. You are damaging this product, you might not think you are but you are, if the devs rush development because of all this bitching they will end up releasing an inferior product. As a CUSTOMER I don't want that to happen - maybe if you guys invested by purchasing a license you wouldn't be so quick to want development rushed.

I completely understand your point about the bitching.  I am very anxiously awaiting the 6.5 free beta and am ready to buy my license as soon as I can put it through a couple of tests.  Version 6.2 did not meet my performance requirements, so it does not make a lot of sense for me to put up my cash until I am sure that 6.5 will.  I truely want to support this product, because the design of 6.2 is awesome (compared to what I currently use).  But until I can get it and make sure that it meets my requirements, I can't see expending my cash.  So I will wait very unpatiently, but fairly quietly, until the public free beta.

[AriusMyst]

Thats up to you, but you should be aware that everybody I speak too on a daily basis from this community completely blanks any question or request for help from "freeloaders" who whine about the beta release. Mainly because it has gotten stupid. I understand where you guys are coming from, especially if they are in your situation, but thats no excuse to whine about this. Let them do their jobs, wait patiently and soon it will be done. I understand your situation, a little, but I honestly don't think 150$ is a lot to *waste* if you don't like the resulting beta when you get it. Its the cost of 3 games. Its not like you're being asked to invest a couple thousand. So I understand, but I also think its a fairly thin excuse - especially given that everything about 65 is the same as 62 apart from the new features. 6.2 is a good demonstration of API, there are very little changes there.

[EagleEye]

AriusMyst: this is good to know that 6.5 is additive, instead of... well, what would be the word for "changing what's already there"?  If you're sold on 6.2, you should be more than sold on 6.5, right?

[potato]

Well, I hate to guarantee anyone anything, YMMV. But my 6.5 experience has been nothing but positive. It's a ludicrously powerful engine.

[AriusMyst]

Well, I hate to guarantee anyone anything, YMMV. But my 6.5 experience has been nothing but positive. It's a ludicrously powerful engine.

I agree completely. But I do understand the reluctance of others to take my, or anybody elses, word on it. But yea, for me 6.2 is a toy and 6.5 is the real deal. Thats why I get so antzy about people trying to rush dev. I just don't want it to get wrecked.  

Edit: EagleEye, there are slight differences. But its pretty much the same, the devs have done their best to keep it the same as 62 - so people don't have to learn a completely new API. But like, cause of DX9 not supporting VB6 for example, its no longer DirectX based structs an types for things - its all wrapped now. So we have things like TV_3DVector, for example. They had to do things this way to keep supporting their VB6 userbase.

[potato]

I just don't want it to get wrecked.

Ditto. I for one am still waiting on TVO's Not to mention the (eventual) TVNet. Having seen the light-years of difference between using DirectX directly and the ease of TV, I can't wait to see what they'd do to networking

I'll echo Arius' thought on the similarities... there are a LOT of features and commands added to 6.5, but the naming conventions, parameter types, and general "theme" of 6.2 is still there.

[Norb]

But... since performance was my issue and they already sold me on the api.  I must wait.  I ran a very quick test on 6.2 and it ended up being very sub par.  So as soon as I can run the same test on 6.5, I won't know if I will be a customer or not.  I am looking to 6.5 for better performance, not new features.  Although I may be impatient, I do not want to rush anything.   Mainly because I want this product to work out for me, I am in their corner cheering.  So I am not complaining about anything.  Just waiting until it's ready.  If I donated $150 dollars to every engine that looks promising, my company wouldn't have much left.  We don't have that much to begin with.  I like to drive my cars before buying.  If it works out, we'll buy the full license.  As far as your claim that the community is rude to people that have not purchased the license, I have not found that to be the case here.  This community is one of the things that attracted me to this engine in the first place.  If it is the case, it does not matter, the api is written well enough that I can write my performance test without any help.

[darqSHADOW]

6.5's performance amazes even me sometimes.  In fact, last nite I was running a minimesh particle system, with 3 emitters, each having 3 different sets of particle keyframes, showing over 1000 alpha-blended minimesh particles...  All running at over 500fps.  =)

DS

[potato]

This community is the best engine community I've seen - but we're not too friendly to the all-too-oft repeated threads of "When 6.5?" I can't blame anyone for getting annoyed at their frequency, especially since updates are public.

And yeah, on my crappy laptop, a similar app runs several times faster in 6.5 over 6.2. I don't have any hard numbers, but 100->600fps between 6.2 and 6.5 is not rare.

[AriusMyst]

I didn't claim people were rude to people who kept whining. I said their queries and requests for help were often ignored.

[Norb]

Awesome, I can't wait to see it for myself.

[azherdev]

AriusMyst, I agree with you in regards to bitching from non-customers.  But I am a customer, and I have purchased this product over a year ago. And I am waiting, and waiting, and waiting. Waited so long that I have picked up DX and made my product built on top of it (2D for now) by creating my own wrapper for simplicity.

Yes, TV3D is powerful and from progress that I have seen it is will be awesome. But it would be nice to actually have it.

Perhaps devs took up too much on a 0.3 version upgrade and should of saved some features for 7.0. Because at the end of the day, 95% completed product is still not a product.

Ahh, I don't mean to bitch.  I'm a developer myself.  I guess I put too much hope on TV3D release dates.  I was hoping it was more of a pro project but it is turning out to be a hobby/tech demo project at this point.

[firebladeonline]

I'm still not a customer, but my reason is that I still don't see 6.5 released.
I really do like 6.2,  I even made a Common Lisp wrappers for it so it could be called from
Common Lisp ,but 6.2 has its issues regarding C++ ( Advanced collision is the most bothering one and few other bugs but I could leave with them). I made few demos with C# and it seems that everything works great but with C++ things are not so good.
So honestly I'm not ready to base my game on 6.2.

I understand thatt Truevision  needs time but guys you're a company being honest and giving at least some approximate deadline when the 6.5 will be released will give us
information needed could we have a time to wait for 6.5 or should look elsewhere.

I still have hopes that my game will have 6.5 underneath but I want to know how the things are going.

[AriusMyst]

I agree that they should be posting more updates to let non-65ers see the progress that is made. But I understand their reasons for not doing so. As for a deadline, I completely understand their reason for not giving one. Thats wise, doesn't make them unprofessional as you suggest azherdev, an fireblade lots of companies don't give deadlines - cause they don't want to be whined at if they need more time an have to extend it. Thats part of the problem here, I have seen the devs say things like "Sometime in summer, we hope" - that was last year. So I think that plays a part in the whining. People need to remember that this product is based on a team of 3 - 2 of which have school/college commitments and 1 of which has a full time job outside of TV. Its going to take them time. I think people should cut them some slack to be honest. Azherdev, you should have beta access if you are a customer, I am assuming you're waiting for a release so you can release your game using 65. This means you know how good 65 is, an how much work an effort they have put in to it and also the progress being made. So I find it very odd that you would criticize. All I am trying to say is that you are programmers - work the logic. If you whine and bitch, what good does it do? - None. The only possible result is that they rush dev. So whats the point in you all whining? Its not gonna suddenly be magically ready. They aren't holding it back to annoy you.

[EagleEye]

Look at Microsoft.  They give a target date for release of a product, and almost ALWAYS have to push it back.  They keep giving new dates, and keep moving them... then they finally release the product and it's full of bugs and require patches and service packs, etc...

Now look at Blizzard and Ubisoft, two companies that never give target dates for the release of their products.  They simply say "When it's done, it's done."  They do everything they can to make it right the first time... these two companies have produced some of the best games on the market today, all with a minimal amount of patches.  (Usually the patches are minor tweaks to gameplay, or anti-cheat stuff)...

I'm following Blizzard's lead when it comes to "making the game right".

I could point to case after case of game companies promising something by a certain date (*AHEM* Ultima Online), and releasing an unfinished product with tons of bugs...

Personally, I'll wait for the finished product and work with the current version until the new one is ready.  It's just not worth it otherwise...

... unless you like beating your head against a wall because of the problems bugs cause you...

[Rynus_Rein]

I agree. But's it's nasty seeing those cool screenshots of the 6.5 beta for such a long time without being allowed to create them by myself >.<

[Zumwalt]

A good marketing decision, if they are almost done with it and are in final testing, is to hold off on the physical release until November of this year, maybe December, that gives them another 6 - 7 months to iron out any final bugs, it will also give them a boon for christmas spending for the dev team. Like others, 6.2 doesn't cut it for me, 6.5 seems to be the ticket and I am commited to finally purchasing when 6.5 is released.

Imagine there rush of purchases near christmas, all those waiting on it to be released will be willing to spend the money, and new people to the TV3D network will be willing to buy, so that should give them a few K for a christmas present.

Its a win / win situation. Owners get there upgrades and are happy, those waiting will finally buy it and use it and will be happy, and most of all, the dev team will have a huge chunk of change to blow in december.

[AriusMyst]

Its not a marketting decision. Beta is not ready yet. Ask any beta tester.

[Rynus_Rein]

Then why would a hobbyist who doesn't plan any commercial release buy 6.5 if he can just download a shareware version?
The only reason than I can think of is being nice to the dev team and stimulating them to continu the development.

[potato]

Then why would a hobbyist who doesn't plan any commercial release buy 6.5 if he can just download a shareware version?

If said hobbying would like to release his creations without the (arguably annoying) watermark in the corner? $150 is really not a big deal for a hobby, I've sunk more money into hobbies that have lasted less time.