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Targon
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« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2006, 12:02:21 PM » |
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I can only subscribe to RaineC's opinion...
"This means TVO will not be completed for the 6.5 release" - That's a pity :/
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rootsage
Customers
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Gamer Enthusiast
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« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2006, 12:02:42 PM » |
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Yeah, I agree with RaineC. I have used products before that got pushed out to soon, or before they were fully completed. They were not to impressive. If this gets rls'd without full docs and tutorials then people will complain about that. People really should not have made any deadlines without an absolute release date. Oh well, I am happy with closed beta so either way it goes I guess I will be satisfied...
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while( !( succeed = try_again()) );
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10 print "Is this recursive?"
20 goto 10
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amiral_l
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« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2006, 12:38:43 PM » |
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I think everybody will be happy following simple rules :
no buyers (like me), we can estimate TV3D from 6.2 and see what to do with or not (i cant only said : why not a donate button for that ?). The 6.2 is considered to be stable and docs, then go with it and see if you can used it for your game.
buyers - i think there's some buyers which are crying. Next time, look forum before buying. Even if some forums are closed, usually you will find some post in public which can informed you. But if you buy, this is your agreement
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dazkona
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« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2006, 12:51:54 PM » |
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amiral, I think you don't know what are talking about...
If you're not abuyer you don't know what a buyer could think or feel, or what have happens on the private beta.
Please, more respect to others on the forum. Think you will need our help because we (buyers), have payed and test this technology...
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WillBellJr
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« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2006, 01:35:09 PM » |
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Well for me documentation is THE most important thing...
TV3D is touted to be really great but I'm not used to working with "example based development" (modifying demo code that does (hopefully) some of what you need.)
I found the majority of my time spent trying to use TV3D was mostly hunting down discussions on topics I was having problems with, searching though demo code or asking questions here (as opposed to coding my games and ideas...)
Looking at the Wikis and help files the majority of time points to empty help topics or topics that don't give any comprehensive details on the when and why on the use of the functions.
This is not to single out TV3D because from trying other "engines", they all seem to be woefully lacking on documentation (or great docs but development dead). I guess if you're not in from the ground up or have previous 3D engine development experience, then good luck...
While I'm a programmer by profession, I'm new to 3D graphics (DirectX 7 was my last serious work on my "gaming ideas" until now.)
Both my initial attempts of using TV3D have hit road blocks (the first with using the video player and the 2nd with a simple rotating sphere (planet) and watching the shadow paint down the side of it like dripping honey)
I can only blame myself for investing in TV3D when I sorta knew the documentation wasn't there, but all the hints of the pending 6.5 release (and how good it looked, plus all the raves about it) was a factor in jumping on for me. It turned out that v6.5 doesn't even implement all of the objects in 6.2 so I ended up sticking with 6.2 anyway. :?
I've since moved on to Beyond Virtual and DX Studio (which hasn't presented those previous problems, but whose tools also lack in the documentation department) and my eye is on Visual3D in hopes that it will be The One when it's released...
As for TV3D, I look at it as an investment (since I can't get my money back).
I feel the product is good; I love the fact you can use C# with it and the performance is great too - I'm hoping that in the near future 6.5 will be released, and perhaps by then I will have gained more experience working in 3D that I can come back to it and "see the light" as everyone here appears to (and especially all the reviewers that hailed TV3D over at devmaster.net site...)
-Will
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"With THIS!, you could be like GOD!..." - Kozer, Blake's 7
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Mixael
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« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2006, 08:37:07 PM » |
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I hope I don't offend anyone here, but I have to agree with RaineC, et al. I'd rather have the whole 6.5 package together, not the core now, and bits and peices later. I guess we're in the minority, and I'm fine with that. What gets me are the people that haven't purchased a license DEMANDING 6.5 NOW. Now, if you have purchased a license, if you notice, you bought a license for 6.2, with the PRIVELEDGE of access to 6.5 before the masses. Granted, the documentation is a little lacking, but I've perused the forums since I found TV, and the Beta forum is alive with helpful advice. 6.2 documentation, on the other hand, I have found to be exceptional! And the forums (at least for me) have been more than helpful...mostly by using the "Search" function  @WillBellJr: Why are you saying it is "example based development"? I've been playing with 6.2, using the examples/samples and modifying them to experiment with the engine, but there is nothing there MAKING me use existing code to modify. I see it as being there to look at as, well, an example. Don't get me wrong...it would be GREAT to have the dev team put out a full, bug free heavily documented, multi-example-for-EVERY-language package tonight. BUT I can live with the delay. And, as rootsage posted, (my opinion is that) it is unwise to tie YOUR release to an engine's (unknown) release. Now that I've probably stepped on EVERYONE's toes, I'll go away and read again. Michael |
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A bug is a feature that didn't make it into the manual.
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pizzayoyo
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« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2006, 10:31:14 PM » |
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@dS -- Everyone complaining about 6.5 taking too long will complain twice as loud when there are little tutorials / docs and some bugs in the core. I think that you should wait for a more complete release than rushing it for people that aren't even paying for the engine.
But there is the point that some people are waiting to release a product. So do whatever you think is best.
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Tan
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« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2006, 12:48:19 AM » |
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DarqShadow has told us about his reasons for delay. We should concern his feelings especially something has happen to his family.
Let us now be more patient and give him some space to breath.....
Afterall, the truevision company has provided a nice development tool and since 6.5 still need to finalised, do give some time.
This is a message i think all developers should understand. No one likes to be chased everyday about when their work is going to be done.
Spare a thought for the developer..............
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Passion to Game Development Always
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vbCrLf
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« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2006, 01:35:57 AM » |
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Maybe its will not good if they will release it as a public beta, but why not to release it as closed beta to anyone who asking?
If only those will send E-Mail or something like that will get the beta, its will be better. And anyone who asked to get the beta will know that its not completed, but he asked it.
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PaulMuaddib
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« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2006, 02:01:33 AM » |
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"This means TVO will not be completed for the 6.5 release" - That's a pity :/ This is the one thing I've been waiting for as well :cry: As a programmer myself, I appreciate all the hard work, the one critique that I have is (and I know how hard it is to do) that I would really, really like to hear a reasonable guesstimate as to when the TVO part will be done. |
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dazkona
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« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2006, 02:10:21 AM » |
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In my personal situation, and i supose is the same for some others as well, I need the release to be able to go commercially with my games and be able to use this technology with my clients.
I respect everyone that uses TV as hobbyist, and that say 'wait', but they have to think also on indie customers that depends on TV to get salaries.
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bbence
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« Reply #31 on: July 18, 2006, 03:16:14 AM » |
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"This means TVO will not be completed for the 6.5 release" - That's a pity :/ This is the one thing I've been waiting for as well :cry: As a programmer myself, I appreciate all the hard work, the one critique that I have is (and I know how hard it is to do) that I would really, really like to hear a reasonable guesstimate as to when the TVO part will be done. No worries about TVO on my part at the moment. One thing is that I still have quite a few more issues and features to sort out in my engine. And there are ways to convert you .map files to .x files, so you can still prototype them in 6.5. This very thing, TVO, was at first a deciding factor for me to start porting my game or not, but I have then realized I can still do many other stuff in the current 6.5 than that. So I have converted my game to 6.5 more than a year ago and using the current beta more than happily. If you've got the 150USD, you should get the license no matter TVO or not TVO will be there in a few months time. |
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ScRePt
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« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2006, 03:29:41 AM » |
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So, to sum up, i guess the majority of you thinks that the delay is for good purposes
(stable release) and not for bad (greed for money)
So let me state it this way : Did you notice what DarqShadow said ?
"
I always swore I would never give in to the non-licensed masses -- simply because they are getting the product for free, and therefore have contributed nothing to us to maintain the company and keep the development going.
"
Man, see your licences. Those masses you call us, we are users of your product.
He only cares about licenced members, thats why I'll keep saing that we (the mass) are
only potential buyers to them and they treat us like ...
Now, according the licence, If I buy it, then I'll buy a 2-years-old product (6.2) without
ANY bug-fix release (check unanswered posts in the public BUGS section and laugh)
and also an alpha version of a ghost-product (6.5) which I can't even test-before-buy
So, I think I'll just throw my money ...
Am I wrong?
Thank you all for stating your opinion on this subject
-ScRePt-
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dazkona
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« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2006, 04:09:47 AM » |
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It's not a ghost product, it's a stable "release candidate beta", and of course, if you don't want to pay you won't get the product, it's very logic...
Think that developers and business man, as the other people, have to eat and to pay house rent, and this is a commercial product. You (and your masses/hordes - it's a joke, sorry) have get a free engine to test it or to develop as hobbyist, if you want some serious, buy the license.
You cannot go to Chrysler and say: "look, i have test your car free for two years, but it's an second-hand old car, I want the brand new sportive car that i've see, give it to me free for a couple of months before buying"
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PowerSlave
Community Member
Posts: 107
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« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2006, 04:13:14 AM » |
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Men, why don't you simply go away?
If you have so many problems with tv3d strategy, simply move along! If you think they're fooling you, what are you doing here? If I think they're fooling me, I no lonmger be here... I don't like to be fooled!
Worst than you, I have access to the beta forum (due to a bug of some sort), but I cannot download the engine and use it!
A 3D Engine isn't something you do in 3 years!
And about the licenses, sfw? If I had a product, do you think I would care more about those who pay me or those who leech me? Welcome to the real world!
We have LUCK to have such a engine for a miserable price! Don't throw THAT away!
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Regards,
PowerSlave
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micmanos
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« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2006, 05:19:32 AM » |
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Scrept, you said it, we answered it. We've heard your problem, and many of us stated our points and beliefs. Now what's the purpose of this? This thread is nowhere near constructive critisism anymore. If you don't value TV3D 6.2 enough, than i suggest (as many before me) you move along friend ... :arrow:
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What i lack in knowledge, i make up for in stupidity so i have a better excuse than the rest ...
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Tan
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« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2006, 07:11:53 AM » |
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I think darqshadow is just expressing his frustrations. Afterall, he did have some personal things which have occurred unexpectedly. (Refer my previous post) I think we should be more considerate. People do have moods. Regards, So, to sum up, i guess the majority of you thinks that the delay is for good purposes
(stable release) and not for bad (greed for money)
So let me state it this way : Did you notice what DarqShadow said ?
"
I always swore I would never give in to the non-licensed masses -- simply because they are getting the product for free, and therefore have contributed nothing to us to maintain the company and keep the development going.
"
Man, see your licences. Those masses you call us, we are users of your product.
He only cares about licenced members, thats why I'll keep saing that we (the mass) are
only potential buyers to them and they treat us like ...
Now, according the licence, If I buy it, then I'll buy a 2-years-old product (6.2) without
ANY bug-fix release (check unanswered posts in the public BUGS section and laugh)
and also an alpha version of a ghost-product (6.5) which I can't even test-before-buy
So, I think I'll just throw my money ...
Am I wrong?
Thank you all for stating your opinion on this subject
-ScRePt- |
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Passion to Game Development Always
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tweakbox
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« Reply #37 on: July 18, 2006, 07:15:01 AM » |
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So, to sum up, i guess the majority of you thinks that the delay is for good purposes
(stable release) and not for bad (greed for money)
So let me state it this way : Did you notice what DarqShadow said ?
"
I always swore I would never give in to the non-licensed masses -- simply because they are getting the product for free, and therefore have contributed nothing to us to maintain the company and keep the development going.
"
Man, see your licences. Those masses you call us, we are users of your product.
He only cares about licenced members, thats why I'll keep saing that we (the mass) are
only potential buyers to them and they treat us like ...
Now, according the licence, If I buy it, then I'll buy a 2-years-old product (6.2) without
ANY bug-fix release (check unanswered posts in the public BUGS section and laugh)
and also an alpha version of a ghost-product (6.5) which I can't even test-before-buy
So, I think I'll just throw my money ...
Am I wrong?
Thank you all for stating your opinion on this subject
-ScRePt- Yea, dude, just go away. You don't even have a clue. You're sitting there complaining because the TV team actually wants to be paid for their hard work. Do you think that the servers that this site runs on are free? Do you think that the guys who pour hours upon hours of their time into this engine simply have nothing else to do? All of your yacking about the unlicensed masses is crap. You present your current product, and show what's in development. If what's in development is not up to your standards to release to every one, you don't release it to every one. Do you even have the smallest bit of a clue how to run a business? I think not. You're probably just another 15 year old kid that has big dreams of making a game and wants something good for free. |
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I want to make a puzzle with like 40,000 pieces, and when it's done, it says "Go Outside"
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ScRePt
Community Member
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« Reply #38 on: July 18, 2006, 07:55:30 AM » |
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Jesus ! Have I ever suggested u what to do and what not to do ? I've opened this thread to see what you think, not to tell me what to do ... Well, apparently I've seen what licenced customers think, What about the NON licenced ones ? -ScRePt- PS: @tweakbox
You're probably just another 15 year old kid that has big dreams of making a game and wants something good for free.
micmanos met me, I am definatelly not 15 and I DO know how bussness is done ... |
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PowerSlave
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« Reply #39 on: July 18, 2006, 08:30:20 AM » |
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What I don't give is what I don't get
:twisted: P.S. - I do not have a license! |
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Regards,
PowerSlave
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