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Author Topic: 3DSTATE vs. TrueVision3D?  (Read 4403 times)
Klaus Nordby
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« on: May 29, 2004, 12:52:00 PM »

I'm currently evaluating both 3DSTATE (www.3dstate.com) and TrueVision3D, both for Delphi develpment - and I have really NO idea which one is best! Does anyone here feel inclined to offer a reasonably objective summary of pros and cons?
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seer
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« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2004, 01:44:03 PM »

i evaluated several 3d engines in my early search before finally stumbling upon the TV site almost by mistake.

although 3dstate  has come a long way in the last 2 years. i think it still has quite a ways to go..  i dont see anything in it, that you couldnt easily do in TrueVision right now.

and if you look at the dev diary,screen shots and movies from 6.5  you will see what is just around the corner.  6.5 will put TV in a totally differnt catagory.

what TV does lack that 3dState has is the world builder tool. however, this can be a limitation off 3dstate in a way.. you are stuck using thier tool and no other one that you might already be familiar with..

TV may lack this type of tool, but you can always use the any of the standard quake type map editors there are out there (and there are many).  by using this standard Map format and then compileing to what TV needs, it lets you choose what ever you are already familiar with. or test out the several free tools and choose which you like the best. 3dState limits you to using thier toolset, which may be pretty good. but you need to wait for them to improve it.
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Josip
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« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2004, 02:48:16 PM »

wow, seer, i also searched the internet for months and evaluated dosends of 3d engines, until i reached TV web site by mistake. And now i thank God for that day.
And of course, i thank creators of TV  Cheesy .

I also evaluated 3D State, and I kicked it because of lousy examples (and ugly web site)...
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Roulette
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Posts: 30


« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2004, 03:15:09 PM »

1. Unreal Engine (not free use)
2. Doom Engine (not free use)
3. CryEngine (not free use)
4. Renderware (not free use)
5. Truevision3D
.
.
.
.
.
2x. 3dstate, morfit..
.

i like tv3d.. Cheesy
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truth is out there...
Pain
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« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2004, 05:12:31 PM »

My opinion (not very objective but anyway...)  Smiley

The reason I chose TV3D over 3DState was

- Ease of use in many languages (I use vb .net and c#)
- Extremely flexible
- Very important -> a very active support community (and dedicated developers)
- Many good samples
- Speed, faster than 3DState
- Ver. 6.5 coming with some very good/cool/amazing features

and these arguments goes for almost every other 3D engine as well both free and commercial.
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rocky
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« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2004, 09:06:12 PM »

I along with Seer use to be a memeber of Morfit then 3DState.

3DState:
World builder was a cool tool and they have a HL map to world converter.
Other than that, it was hard to get all the desired effects such as water.
3d type FPS shooter was a bitch!

TV3d:
Ease of use, water effects, shader an a good bunch of people who are always willing to help out with code snippets and sharing of theories. Through the communities feed back in bug testing, a new version is on it's way with all the bells and whistles.

And of course the other reason I left 3dState. After that crappy demo I made  called Tora Bora they made me leave and promised to never come back. LOL!

Rocky
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stodge
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Posts: 154


« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2004, 11:12:21 AM »

Stay as far away from 3DState as you can. I am still amazed at the low quality of their samples. They made a huge fuss about relasing a BSP map viewer (Half Life maps?) years after everyone else did. Performance is poor, visual quality is poor and their arrogance is, well, just astounding.
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PowerSlave
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« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2004, 02:22:32 AM »

Quote from: "stodge"
Stay as far away from 3DState as you can. I am still amazed at the low quality of their samples. They made a huge fuss about relasing a BSP map viewer (Half Life maps?) years after everyone else did. Performance is poor, visual quality is poor and their arrogance is, well, just astounding.


MORFIT_DOES_THIS_AND_THAT_FUNCTIONS_NAMIES_ARE_AMAZING()

Sorry, I couldn't resist :lol:

Serious now, TV is far more advanced than 3DState (previous Morfit) and gives devs much more options and freedom. And, of course, it's much more powerfull than 3DState.
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Regards,
PowerSlave
AriusMyst
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« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2004, 06:34:18 PM »

I don't have much experiance in 3dstate, i only used it for about 5 minutes before deciding it was crap. I tried running one of their samples and got about 5 fps, i wouldn't of minding so much had the sample been nice to look at with some complex code behind it, but it wasn't. Tv is far better imo.
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Waterman
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« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2004, 02:48:02 AM »

IIRC 3DState renders in software only unless you press some key combination, something like CTRL-SHIFT-V.
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Vbguy ProgMeister
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« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2004, 09:47:33 AM »

I think you should post the same topic on the 3dstate web site and see what they say because these comments here are way too "objective".

I have been developing games with 3dstate this last two years and i must say that the Engine has much improved and Version 7 is already offering the same features as the upcoming V 6.5 of truevision3d.

As for the performance issue  I must agree that 3dstate is a little slower than TV3D but it is by far easier to use. Thus a programmer can use most of his time focusing on non 3d aspect of his application e.g. physics, AI etc...

Here are screenshots of a game I am currently developing  and sample of codes handling the light and shadow effects you can see on the screens .
Dont mind the FPS on the ScreenShots: they are very low because I am developing the game with the VB tool of Microsoft Word .
If there a too dark try pasting them in MSWord and change the Luminosity and Contrast properties.




and ...



Code:

'---------------------------
'SET LIGHT HALO
'--------------------------
Dim InputData As String
Dim lngLightHalo(1 To 12) As Long
Dim dblHaloLocation(2) As Double
Dim PosSeparator1 As Integer
Dim PosSeparator2 As Integer

Open App.Path + "\streetlights.txt" For Input As #1
i = 0
Do While Not EOF(1)
i = i + 1
DoEvents
Line Input #1, InputData
PosSeparator1 = InStr(1, InputData, ",") 'Get the positions of the separators in inputdata
PosSeparator2 = InStr(PosSeparator1 + 1, InputData, ",")
lngLightHalo(i) = STATE_object_create_from_file(App.Path + "\World\City\lighthalo.wld")
dblHaloLocation(0) = CDbl(Left(InputData, PosSeparator1))
dblHaloLocation(1) = CDbl(Mid(InputData, PosSeparator1 + 1, PosSeparator2 - 1))
dblHaloLocation(2) = CDbl(Mid(InputData, PosSeparator2 + 1))
STATE_object_set_location1 lngLightHalo(i), dblHaloLocation(0)
'STATE_polygon_set_rotated lngLightHalo(i), YES
Loop



'-----------------------
'CREATE LIGHT ON GROUND
'-----------------------
        For j = LBound(wldPolygon) To UBound(wldPolygon) - 1 'Loop through all the polys of the world
            DoEvents
            'Form1.Label1.Caption = CStr(j)
            For i = LBound(lngLightPlane) + 1 To UBound(lngLightPlane)
              STATE_light_get_location lngLights(i), dblPlaneLocation(0) 'Get the light's location defined in .wld file
              If STATE_math_get_square_distance(dblPlaneLocation(0), wldPolygon(j).dbllocation(0)) < 300 ^ 2 Then 'Check if the polygon is within the light scope
               STATE_engine_create_shadow wldPolygon(j).lngHandle, lngLightPlane(i), dblPlaneLocation(0), 250 'Create a bright shadow which acts like light
               Exit For
              End If
            Next
        Next







The one thing I can blame 3dstate for is a very inactive community and you must take this into account before making your choice.

Vbguy ProgMeister
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stodge
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« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2004, 04:51:31 PM »

I tried 3DState and deleted after a wee while; it just wasn't worth the time and effort in terms of speed or quality. And there's a reason that the community is small and in-active; no-one uses it.
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Klaus Nordby
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Posts: 8


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« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2004, 04:35:54 PM »

Thanks, folks - keep your comments coming! :-) Yes, I quite agree that the 3DSTATE web site is NOT very convincing, and the community acctivity is very important too.

Another comparison: OpenGL and TV3D? The open source GLscene for Delphi seems pretty neat, too . . .
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AriusMyst
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« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2004, 04:56:47 PM »

Quote from: "Waterman"
IIRC 3DState renders in software only unless you press some key combination, something like CTRL-SHIFT-V.


Well that would explain my low framerate when using it. Although, that does seem somewhat stupid, an end user shouldn't have to use a key combination to switch it over. As for 3dstate being "far" easier to use, i didn't find this. An when comparing two engines together surely you should be "objective".
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