Truevision3D

TV3D SDK => Content Pipeline => Topic started by: sammael on February 03, 2008, 03:17:11 AM



Title: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: sammael on February 03, 2008, 03:17:11 AM
is the tva/tvm exporter plugin for maya 2008 supported?


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: GD on February 03, 2008, 04:27:12 AM
Please visit http://www.truevision3d.com/forums/index.php?topic=17277.0
:)


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: MiloDC on February 22, 2008, 12:19:32 PM
As of 22 Feb 2008, no, there is still no Maya 2K8 TVA/TVM exporter.


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: sammael on March 05, 2008, 11:03:34 PM
hmmm march 6 2008, any news regarding the import export plug-in


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: MiloDC on March 18, 2008, 10:35:46 AM
As of 18 Mar 2008, no, there is still no Maya 2K8 TVA/TVM exporter.


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: vsleepy on March 24, 2008, 07:30:39 PM
you know what. the date is put at the top of each post. amazing, i know! If you had paid for commercial software, you may have a leg to stand on. but a) tv6.5 is still in beta, b) you're yet to contribute towards it development effort.


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: Raine on March 24, 2008, 08:44:06 PM
it's also true that this is probably the longest beta ever... perhaps not. there's still duke nukem. :P just joking!
I'm sure Sylv and co. will fix stuff in due time.


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: sammael on March 29, 2008, 09:29:02 AM
im on a diffrent time zone.  :D eastern, so were advance


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: MiloDC on March 31, 2008, 05:00:54 PM
you know what. the date is put at the top of each post. amazing, i know! If you had paid for commercial software, you may have a leg to stand on. but a) tv6.5 is still in beta, b) you're yet to contribute towards it development effort.

Who is this twerp?

In my almost 20 years of professional game development, I've never made a habit of paying for basic functionality in the hope that it'll come about eventually.  Or do you know of some other way I am supposed to test a beta (and thereby "contribute towards it development effort") without an exporter?

@!#$ n00b.



Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: RuntimeError101 on March 31, 2008, 06:14:56 PM
Uhh, correct me if I'm wrong, but vsleepy has more posts than you, has been here longer, and is a customer and you're not.  Who're you calling a n00b?  Not to start anything ugly, but sheesh, calm down...


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: aspurgeon on March 31, 2008, 06:35:21 PM
Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7358768984043835546) !!!


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: newborn on March 31, 2008, 08:57:45 PM
Uhh, correct me if I'm wrong, but vsleepy has more posts than you, has been here longer, and is a customer and you're not.

Hummm... well see, even if Milo doesn't have to prove his qualities (regardless of number of posts, which would be the most miserable way of evaluating one's ability), he still has a point here: there are some functionalities that a TV3D user would be expecting from such a high quality 3D engine such as Truevision3D. Depending which area they're concentrating, these users might be looking for octrees, plug-ins/exporters or documentation. It gets really frustrating when you're stuck at one point in your dev. because the engine is lacking this or that. I think this is what Milo was trying to express... but mind you, there are probably nicer ways to voice oneself without having to call people (funny) names.


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: RuntimeError101 on March 31, 2008, 08:59:57 PM
Well, yes I was really just focusing on the "n00b" part...  :)


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: MiloDC on April 01, 2008, 12:03:54 AM
Well, yes I was really just focusing on the "n00b" part...  :)

He is a n00b, straight up.

I don't care that he has made a bunch of posts and paid for TV3D (which is a great engine -- when you can export your art).  I've been a professional game artist and programmer for nigh two decades.  Anyone who's been making games for a tenth of that time knows how stupid it is to berate someone for not contributing to a beta when a lack of something as basic as an exporter precludes doing so.

That's like telling someone to stop complaining about not being able to test drive a car because the manufacturer forgot to install the steering column.  Only some smarmy fanboy who has deluded himself into thinking he knows his sh!t would jump to the manufacturer's defense in such a case.

Some people really need to make sure they know WTF they're talking about before they bring their college boy attitude downtown.

Now, if I have to buy TV3D before I can export art from Maya 2K8, that's another discussion.  It wouldn't make any sense at all, and I've seen no indication that this is the case, but if it's so, then I'd like to know.


Quote from: RuntimeError101
Not to start anything ugly, but sheesh, calm down...
That's up to everyone else, man.  I have made many posts to these forums, all of them civil.  If someone is going to bring some smug little attitude, though, then all bets are off.


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: GD on April 01, 2008, 09:16:01 AM
take a chill pill

eh btw vsleepy is sylvain's younger sister


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: sammael on April 01, 2008, 12:14:32 PM
who started it anyways?

some of us maybe noobs but some of you are noobs with regards to basic psychology and ethics.

please be sensitive when posting replies
people have diffrent personalities. some of them gets offended easily.
that is called respect i guess.

please dont scare away possible customer.
were just asking that a car were "trying to buy" from them is missing a steering wheel.

i think the word is evaluation.
our "evaluation" on tv is that its missing an exporter, and by posting we hope that we could get the attention of tv developers so that it could be included in next release or by other means.

and please dont brag the words "if u dont like it then dont buy it". were just asking if it had steering wheel then it'd be better car. thats a simple analogy, please dont make it more complicated. ive already met more than enough people that says this and that, and they all made themeselves look stupid.

less talk, less mistake.




Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: sammael on April 01, 2008, 12:32:18 PM
bout what is said(posted), im taking it back. i said to much. sorry if i offended anyone. :-[


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: MiloDC on April 01, 2008, 01:11:48 PM
Sammael, we are 100% perfectly justified in repeatedly asking where the Maya 2K8 exporters are.

Maya is one of the two highest-profile, most popular modeling and animation packages in the world.

2K8 is the latest version, and it has been out for almost a year.

What's more, chances are good that it isn't even a big deal to compile the exporter for use with 2K8.  I've written several Maya C++ plug-ins myself, and I re-compiled and released a modified version of the 2K8 version of the DTS exporter back when I was using TGEA.  I don't want to say for sure that this is the case with TV's exporters, in the event that updates to the Maya API have significantly impacted their code, but it is highly unlikely.

It's just weird to me that TV offers the beta to the public without providing any exporters for the latest version of Maya (which, again, has been out for a long time, now).  Absent pertinent information known only to TV's coders at this time, that makes no sense.  It's a real shame, too, because TV3D seems to be a very good engine; I had a lot of fun playing with it until I hit the Maya 2K8 wall.

I would settle for an explanation, at this point, instead of some dangling carrot.  If I'm not going to be able to evaluate the engine further because I can't import my art, then please let me know so I can stop wasting my time.


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: MiloDC on April 01, 2008, 01:20:03 PM
it's also true that this is probably the longest beta ever... perhaps not. there's still duke nukem. :P just joking!
I'm sure Sylv and co. will fix stuff in due time.

They'll probably fix stuff, sure, but "due time" passed long ago.

Those of us who are experienced coders can create our own work-arounds, in most cases.  Sad to say I can't say the same for less experienced and non- coders.

Fortunately, the engine is fast enough and structured well enough that this isn't a common need (on an individual basis, at least).  Sylvain and company really need to make sure that the basics are covered, though.


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: RuntimeError101 on April 01, 2008, 02:30:48 PM
Hmm... I suppose you're probably right.  Although my frustration is hardly through the roof like yours, you're awfully persuasive...


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: MiloDC on April 04, 2008, 09:31:35 PM
Hmm... I suppose you're probably right.  Although my frustration is hardly through the roof like yours, you're awfully persuasive...

Don't confuse my reaction to this "vsleepy" character with my disappointment in TV for failing to provide us with Maya 2K8 exporters.

vsleepy's contribution to this thread was rude, arrogant, uncalled for, and just plain stupid (wherever programmers congregate, some snob of a fanboy is bound to run off at the mouth now and then -- having that many geeks in one place makes it inevitable).  That irritated me quite a bit more than TV's failure to support Maya 2K8.


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: Toaster on April 05, 2008, 05:05:26 PM
Wow okay listen here.. Truevision3D is offered for free not for 1000 dollars or for the price of good car its offered for free! Not only that I am pretty sure Sylv and the other developers have other jobs. They decided to take time out of there daily lives to make this engine. You should be grateful for what they have done so far! As for myself I can wait for the updates to come out even if it takes another year! Obviously you have certain problems..

-Toaster


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: MiloDC on April 06, 2008, 01:01:47 PM
Wow okay listen here.. Truevision3D is offered for free not for 1000 dollars or for the price of good car its offered for free! Not only that I am pretty sure Sylv and the other developers have other jobs. They decided to take time out of there daily lives to make this engine. You should be grateful for what they have done so far! As for myself I can wait for the updates to come out even if it takes another year! Obviously you have certain problems..

It's free to evaluate, smart guy.  If you want to release an actual product with it, you have to pay for it (unless you don't think your clients will mind having the watermark plastered prominently over their graphics).

More importantly, I'm not down with this silly little fanboy code of ethics that says that I can't criticize something if I didn't pay for it.  That doesn't even make sense.  Software developers routinely release beta versions of their stuff for free precisely so it can be criticized by more users, and therefore improved for final (non-free) release.

So, one of my very few criticisms of TV3D (which seems to be an outstanding package in general) is that it has no Maya 2K8 exporters.  That is bad, for reasons that I've already posted, not the least of which is that it prevents users from evaluating the engine.

Is this all clear, now?


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: sammael on April 08, 2008, 12:47:07 PM
Quote
It's free to evaluate,


i totaly agree with u sir milodc. And take things easy, some of them are fanboys. you should expect them to stand on the product. 

were just doing our part with the "Evaluation" thingy :). I guess they're just blind in seeing our reason with regards to our so called "Evaluation" :-\.

__________________________________________________________________________________________
"if u dont like it dont buy it" qouted from the lyrics of the song I'm a Fanboy by Fanboy. :D





Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: vsleepy on April 08, 2008, 11:34:27 PM
Quote
Who is this twerp?

In my almost 20 years of professional game development, I've never made a habit of paying for basic functionality in the hope that it'll come about eventually.  Or do you know of some other way I am supposed to test a beta (and thereby "contribute towards it development effort") without an exporter?

@!#$ n00b.

thought i'd come back and have a look at this post (gee i'm glad i did  ;D ), and its amazing how some people take things a little too seriously (and personally), and how they can glean so much information from a couple of sentences. fanboy; nope, noob; dont think so. college boy: not for about 15 years.. twerp... ok, you got me there ::)

But, Milo, I think its clear that this engines development is being done by a small part time team, and thus the cost of using the technology is cheap (dirt cheap!).

Unfortunately there is no free lunch here either, and what you consider a requirement of an engine is most certainly not a requirement of others using the engine. Your post stating that some feature was not available on some date can only be taken in a demanding tone which has been backed up by your subsequent posts regarding basic features not being available (or what ever it was you said). To one person the inclusion of a media engine, or a networking engine may be paramount to their project and here they have a few choices: write one, wait for one, find a workaround, or move on.

If you think that this engines focus is one of supporting the latest and greatest modelling app this year, then unfortunately you're mistaken, and I wouldn't have thought this will change any time soon (unfortunate for all of us). As this is probably a requirement for your project, can I suggest you perhaps find an engine that has more of a focus on providing support for your modelling app of choice, or help the community and write one your self. Or perhaps bitch and moan to the makers of maya that they provide you with a decent .X file export facility (since your a paying customer i presume) as this would surely be 'Basic Functionality' of any modeling app.

What has been suggested and implied in other posts by the development team is that the engine may (one day) support the file formats that are emerging as cross-platform and transportable (such as collada). This is where I would prefer the small team to spend their limited energy rather than compiling an app for (i would guess) a fairly small population of the community that happen to use the same version of maya as you do (and then one for every other iteration of modelling software). I think they're well aware where their product has holes, and don't need some demanding 'beta tester' (the least offensive term I could think of...) reminding them of this at regular intervals.

....oh and just to dispel any untruths; i'm not sylvain' little sister, but thanks GD.

jim


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: GD on April 09, 2008, 04:27:58 AM
ahahaha sorry vsleepy, it was April 1st so I couldn't resist saying something untrue


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: MiloDC on April 13, 2008, 04:30:42 AM
But, Milo, I think its clear that this engines development is being done by a small part time team, and thus the cost of using the technology is cheap (dirt cheap!).

Agreed, the price point is fantastic, considering the capabilities of the engine, the languages that it supports, and how well it's structured.


To one person the inclusion of a media engine, or a networking engine may be paramount to their project and here they have a few choices: write one, wait for one, find a workaround, or move on.

That analogy isn't valid. TV3D's developers have long made it crystal clear that it isn't a game engine (though it can be used for that purpose).  It's a graphics engine, and I expect it to support the basics in that regard.  Clearly, the developers themselves see the merit in this, as they've seen fit to support old versions of Maya, knowing that exporters are crucial to a client's ability to evaluate the product.  Why not the newer versions, though?  (Heck, at least network and media support are in the cards, which is more than I can say for up-to-date Maya exporters.)


If you think that this engines focus is one of supporting the latest and greatest modelling app this year, then unfortunately you're mistaken, and I wouldn't have thought this will change any time soon (unfortunate for all of us).

Maya 2K8 came out last year (almost one year ago, in fact), not this year -- and Maya 8.5 has been out for two years.  It stands to reasons that a lot of people will be using the latest versions, now that they've been out for one to two years. Why are TV3D's developers cutting off big chunks of potential customers by limiting support to a version of Maya that's three years old?  The least they could do is provide source code for their exporters (as other developers do), if they aren't going to provide the MLL files.


As this is probably a requirement for your project, can I suggest you perhaps find an engine that has more of a focus on providing support for your modelling app of choice,

If I can't convince TV3D's developers to provide us with plug-ins for the latest versions of Maya (or source code for the exporters), I'll do that.  I'm not quite ready to give up, though.


or help the community and write one your self.

That's a big project, and therefore a last resort.  Let me know where I can get the TVA and TVM file specs.


Or perhaps bitch and moan to the makers of maya that they provide you with a decent .X file export facility (since your a paying customer i presume) as this would surely be 'Basic Functionality' of any modeling app.

I already have a DirectX exporter.  As I wrote elsewhere, going the DirectX route greatly increases production time, and is apparently much more error-prone than using TVA files.


What has been suggested and implied in other posts by the development team is that the engine may (one day) support the file formats that are emerging as cross-platform and transportable (such as collada). This is where I would prefer the small team to spend their limited energy rather than compiling an app for (i would guess) a fairly small population of the community that happen to use the same version of maya as you do (and then one for every other iteration of modelling software).

It isn't a question of their energy reserves.  It takes literally a couple of minutes to compile a plug-in for a new version of Maya (unless there has been some drastic change in the Maya API that affects the TVM/TVA exporters, which I very seriously doubt).  I know this from my own experience authoring Maya exporters and other types of tools.


I think they're well aware where their product has holes, and don't need some demanding 'beta tester' (the least offensive term I could think of...) reminding them of this at regular intervals.

Like I wrote before, if they'd just come out and say that they have no plans to support Maya 2K8 or 8.5, that would satisfy me.  That would make it much easier for me to make a decision about whether I should stick with TV3D or totally jump ship.

I don't expect Sylvain and company to jump on command, but I do think that letting your customers (actual and potential) know where you stand is common sense (assuming you care whether they stay or go).  If I had 2K8 exporters, or the source code, or if I was told that either of the two were coming, I would have bought a license by now.


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: SylvainTV on April 13, 2008, 07:39:03 AM
The worse thing is that we have already compiled a Maya 2k8 exporter that works. It's not really hard to do, you just have to link with the new SDKs and make minor version modifications. The thing is that it's dependnant on the new DLL release, which we have problems with for now ( blocking bug + broken SVN ), that's why it's not released yet, it wouldn't work without the new dll.

Today i'm actually cleaning the plugins to use only one solution and same files because for now it's a pain to work with that.

TV will have support for :
  Max 7, 8, 9, 2008
  Maya 7, 8, 8.5, 2008
  Milkshape3D
 
Yes yes i know that Max 2009 is already released (sigh)

The plugins are still based on old versions of .X exporters, however I have now more experience with plugins so sometimes this year I will rewrite them so that it is less dependant on the .X format (lacking tangents, material ambient, multi texturing etc.)


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: MiloDC on April 26, 2008, 10:32:16 PM
The worse thing is that we have already compiled a Maya 2k8 exporter that works. It's not really hard to do, you just have to link with the new SDKs and make minor version modifications. The thing is that it's dependnant on the new DLL release, which we have problems with for now ( blocking bug + broken SVN ), that's why it's not released yet, it wouldn't work without the new dll.

Today i'm actually cleaning the plugins to use only one solution and same files because for now it's a pain to work with that.

TV will have support for :
  Max 7, 8, 9, 2008
  Maya 7, 8, 8.5, 2008
  Milkshape3D
 
Yes yes i know that Max 2009 is already released (sigh)

The plugins are still based on old versions of .X exporters, however I have now more experience with plugins so sometimes this year I will rewrite them so that it is less dependant on the .X format (lacking tangents, material ambient, multi texturing etc.)

Thanks for the explanation, Sylvain.

I'm really tempted to purchase a license, now, but given the amount of time it's typically taken you guys to release updates of any kind (engine, exporters, whatever), I think you'll understand my decision to wait for something more concrete (on the Maya 2K8 side) before I buy.

In the meantime, I'll continue to enjoy using an unlicensed version of your great engine!


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: darqSHADOW on May 03, 2008, 01:28:34 PM
On a side note, 3DS Max 2009 is now also supported and will be in this weeks release.

John


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: MiloDC on May 11, 2008, 03:13:05 PM
On a side note, 3DS Max 2009 is now also supported and will be in this weeks release.

John

Do you consider Sunday the end of the week?


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: Toaster on May 11, 2008, 07:17:06 PM
I believe he does.

http://www.truevision3d.com/forums/development_information/new_release-t17733.0.html;msg121911#new


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: SylvainTV on May 12, 2008, 05:52:17 AM
Actually Monday is the end of the "prolonged weekend" here in France ...
And again, don't get too excited by the Maya exporter...


Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: moon cresta on April 04, 2009, 10:33:41 AM
hi,
im new in this community and I use maya:)

before continuing and clarify some doubts about the exporter
I have a question to support:
is this type of arrogant treatment with users(beginers)allowed in this community?







Title: Re: Autodesk Maya 2008 plugin export supported?
Post by: AriusEso on April 04, 2009, 03:33:56 PM
hi,
im new in this community and I use maya:)

before continuing and clarify some doubts about the exporter
I have a question to support:
is this type of arrogant treatment with users(beginers)allowed in this community?







It's not typical, no. But it does happen on occasion, just as anywhere.

Welcome to the forum. :)