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Author Topic: RealmForge GDK vs TV3D  (Read 5967 times)
Alexion Skylark
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« on: May 12, 2005, 07:55:21 PM »

man, take a look at this list of features... impressive huh?


Coding

    * Plugin architecture ensures a flexible framework, game engine, and toolset
    * Everything from the editor to the GUI's are data and script-driven
    * Master Modules contains nearly all aspects of the game data: world design, script attachment, entity placement and configurations, shader configuration, game settings, in-game literature, races and classes, and gameplay settings to name a few
    * The framework supports every conceivable game genre (eg. RPG, FPS, MMORPG, Adventure) and even those not often considered for 3D games (ie: board and puzzle)
    * The framework includes the RealmForge Media Library which is a compilation of free resources developed for it
    * A heavy singleton architecture is used to create a series of distinct systems with minimal dependencies which can be replaced with custom implementations
    * Plugin Modules can be created by the editor. These are concise diff-grams similar to those of Morrowind. They can be used by the modding communities or distributed as game updates
    * Maintainability and good OOP practices as well as project standards are enforced in this open-source project
    * The plugin architecture allows OpenGL and DirectX to be used interchangeably, like most aspects of the game; this can be changed simply by changing a value in the Config class
    * Written in C# using the .NET Framework, so can be used by all .NET Languages including C#, C++ .NET (MC++), VB .NET, J#, Delphi .NET, Jscript .NET, Lua .NET, Perl .NET, Python .NET

Scripting

    * Everything is controlled by scripts and uses interfaces to allow for full customization without modification of the code
    * Uses C# and JScript.net for scripting language providing unprecedented power, flexibility, and simplicity
    * Scripts can be developed in the IDE with an optional minimized syntax to emulate JScript.NET
    * Scripts can be compiled and run on the fly mid-game
    * Assemblies can be automatically loaded and have their scripts registered
    * Every entity is fully scriptable and has a wide range of events to which scripts can be attached

Built-in Editors

    * The Game Editor is integrated into the engine and can be displayed in-game similar to Doom III
    * The line between design-time and runtime are blurred as a game can be edited using the full range of tool windows similar to an IDE
    * The in-game edit allows the beta testing and modifications to be made simultaneously

Physics

    * Basic Physics, Collision Detection, Rigid Body, Vehicle Physics
    * The Tao C# binding for ODE is used for an excellent open-source physics implementation
    * The OOP plugin architecture allows for an extensible physics engine which can easily be configured for your game
    * Rag-doll physics allows for characters to be designed from a series of body parts for a vast array of different character with minimal effort
    * Support for the dismemberment of characters

Scene Management

    * General, BSP, Octrees, LOD:
    * Highly customizable and flexible scene management
    * Plugins can override parts scene management with custom implementation
    * Different Axiom Scene Managers are supported to control low-level culling and features such as terrain rendering
    * Hierarchical (node-based) scene design
    * References to node trees provide an inlined prefab support (ie. a house template is used and minor modifications can be made for each instance)
    * Unique ID's allow referencing of specific entities in scripts
    * Regions or second-level nodes allow for environment settings such as sky and fog to differ for different areas
    * Node-based design with Region culling allows for a loadless game design
    * Realms (or highest level nodes) are used to denote unconnected regions of the game. This can be used to create a game which maintains separate cells and loads them when entered
    * All Entities (including Regions, Nodes, and Realm) can be overridden to allow for custom implementations

Lighting

    * Per-vertex, Per-pixel, Lightmapping:
    * Unlimited number of lights
    * Easy application of lighting effects such as blinking and sparks
    * Scriptable Light entities with scriptable movement paths
    * A wealth of properties including ambient and diffuse colors, intensity and radius
    * Support for different light types including spotlight, point, cone, and ambient

Shadows

    * Shadow Mapping, Projected planar, Shadow Volume:
    * Supported techniques include modulative stencil, additive stencil, modulative projective, texture mapped, texture modulative, and decals
    * Multiple stencil shadow optimizations
    * Texture shadows fade out at far distance for FPS optimization

Texturing

    * Basic, Multi-texturing, Bumpmapping, Mipmapping, Volumetric, Projected:
    * Support for Picture-in-picture to emulate effects such as cameras or rear-view mirrors
    * Views can be rendered to a texture and applied to an entity to simulate working in-game cameras or video feeds
    * Textures are registered as Materials so that they can be loaded from different resources (including compressed archives and libraries)
    * All materials are simple shaders, allowing them have dynamic properties
    * Excellent in-game cut-scene rendering and path/movement scripting
    * Supports PNG, JPEG, TGA, BMP and DDS image files

Shaders

    * Supports vertex and fragment programs (shaders)
    * Low-level programs written in assembler
    * High-level programs written in Cg or DirectX9 HLSL
    * The shaders are abstracted into Modifiers which can be applied to entities to generate the desired visual effects
    * A number of different properties are provided for each Modifier to allow it to be tailored to the target without the writing multiple programs
    * The OOP design allows game designers to concentrate on the game itself without an intricate knowledge of shaders
    * A library of Modifiers abstracting a series of different shaders are provided as a catalyst for game development
    * Every entity uses a simple shader or Material object to ensure that all textures are dynamic
    * Material support different techniques to account for different levels of shader support in video cards
    * Provides automatic support for many commonly bound constant parameters in the shaders

Rendering

    * Fixed-function, Render-to-Texture, Fonts, GUI:
    * Level-of Detail rendering optimizes FPS
    * Transparency in textures automatically applied (eg. png, gif)
    * Supports the complete range of fixed function operations to account for hardware which doesn’t support shader use
    * Support for infinite material techniques

Animation

    * Keyframe Animation, Skeletal Animation, Facial Animation, Animation Blending:
    * Skeletal animation with blending of multiple animations and variable bone weights
    * Physics-based animations in which forces are applied to bones and body parts to ensure the realism and integrity of animations
    * Built-in tools for animating rag-doll characters

Meshes

    * Mesh Loading, Skinning, Progressive:
    * Hardware-accelerated skinning
    * Flexible mesh data formats accepted
    * Loads OGRE Mesh, Skeleton, and Material formats
    * Working on 3DS and LWO loading
    * Exporters for 3DS Studio Max, Blender, Lightwave, Maya, Milkshape, Wings3D
    * Biquadric Bezier patches for curved surfaces

Special Effects

    * Environment Mapping, Lens Flares, Billboarding, Particle System, Sky, Water, Fire, Explosion, Decals, Fog, Weather, Mirror:
    * Interactive water which responds to weather such as rain and hail and is displaced by other entities
    * Particle Systems represented as IEffect entities which can have scripted movement and variance or be applied to other entities
    * Support for different sky types including Dome, Plane, and Cube
    * Use of shaders allows dynamic effects such as wind-speed and direction for Sky and Water
    * Different water entities have different properties allowing them to be more viscous or thick for the creation of swamps
    * Fog disguises the camera culling region or can be applied over an area
    * Underwater foggy effect
    * Incredible Fire, Explosion, and other particle/sprite effects are represented as configurable IEffect entities which can be placed with the game editor
    * Environment settings such as sky, fog, ambient light, and weather can be configured separately for different regions of the world

Terrain

    * Rendering and culling of terrain cells
    * Loading of meshes and height-maps
    * Support for lighting and shadows on terrain
    * Optional approximation of lighting for FPS optimization
    * Terrain collision detection

Networking

    * Client-Server, Peer-to-Peer, Master Server:
    * Flexible network and server support for different types of games
    * Centralized server, or peer-to-peer networking
    * Designed for use in massive-multiplayer games such as MMORPGs
    * The flexible design provides different server implementation to ensure that the networking is optimized and tailored to each game
    * The use of .NET Remoting (or clear proxy object with RPC calls under the hood) allows games to be run with a server with no changes in the underling code. This allows games to be networking enabled with no extra effort

Audio & Video

    * 3D Sound, Streaming Sound:
    * OpenAL for excelent cross-platform sound
    * 3D sound with panning, volume, doppler, and cones
    * Implemented in an OOP fashion with the use of scriptable Sound entities

Pathfinding, Decision Making, Finite State Machines, Scripted, Neural Networks:

    * A Neural Networks/Decision-Tree Hybrid is used as the primary mode of AI decision making
    * A genetic algorithm allows for the evolution or characters or races of creatures for the creation of challenging opponents which learn to match the player’s tactics
    * Every aspect of the engine is scriptable and AI is no exception
    * An event-based architecture for the characters to provides a powerful scripting interface for the AI
    * Different path finding algorithms will be provided to accommodate different game genres


Source: [link]http://realmforgewiki.castlegobs.nl/index.php/Features[/link]

So, what do you guys think? can this engine put up a fight with TV? Smiley
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paopow
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« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2005, 10:08:23 PM »

Hmm.. I haven't got this hunk of junk to work on my system as of yet. All the features sound good, but I can't even get the pre-compiled .exe's to work.
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TheTroll
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« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2005, 11:39:18 PM »

It sounds ok for game programming but I am working on one project that is sort of a game and the other is a simulation program.  

I like TV3Ds approach in that it is just a graphics engine, it does not force you into a set format on anything, it allows you to be as flexable as you want.  I think that is the real power of TV3D.  Yes you have to do more work, but your game will not be a cookie cutter game like the others being put out by the other engines.  

Just my 2 cents
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Alexion Skylark
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« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2005, 11:43:43 PM »

in the webpage, it says the engine's not driven to any specific purpose, it's a middleware designed to be used in all sorts of 3D apps.

I'd like some opinions because I only saw the reviews and statements of its users and developer, which, of course, talk like it's the best engine in the world. But I'd like to have a more realistic approach, with its pros and cons put on a balance, and even better if it's against TV. I really want to compare the both.
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AriusMyst
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« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2005, 09:42:41 AM »

I don't use a .net based language so I havent tried this engine. Just wanted to say welcome to the board Alexion  Smiley
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Javin
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« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2005, 11:52:03 AM »

Impressive.  Got any benchmarks for it?
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flex
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« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2005, 12:01:08 PM »

I dont download others 'cause I have TV
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Javin
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« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2005, 12:02:06 PM »

*heh heh*

I'm a fanboy, too, but I'm not gonna ignore the idea that there are competing options.
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Alexion Skylark
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« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2005, 07:13:32 PM »

First of all, thanks for the welcoming Smiley

Well, OK, I found something about RealmForge... Its graphic layer, Axiom, is in fact a .NET
version of OGRE. That pretty muchsums up my decision, since I've seen some topics in here about OGRE, and did a little comparison by myself, and it seems that TV 6.5 will be/is already  FAR superior to OGRE. That said, I guess I'll stick with TV.
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Makaze
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« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2005, 05:55:46 PM »

I was using Axiom for a while. At first I was really excited about it because I enjoy coding in C# so much more than C++ . But trhe more I used it the less enthused I was. It's not a bad engine but it obviously has all the flaws OGRE has and a few more to boot

First It's nothing but a graphics engine, no real input, no sound, no physics, just rendering.

Second it tends to be around a month or more behind OGRE in terms of features since it's a port and nohting gets added to Axiom without first getting added to OGRE.

Third it's so obsessed with being object oriented and modular that I think some non intuitive design decisions were made. The same goes for OGRE's multi platformness.

And fourth and most troublesome was the small non financially invested development team. And by team I mean 1 guy Leedguitar. Now Leed is a great guy, nice, patient, willing to explain the same thing to the same idiots over and over again but he's still one guy. And a few months back he went through some rough personal stuff and then started playing WoW and well any and all development of Axiom simply halted. He may or may not be back now and may or may not be working on the next version (Axiom forums are down) I dunno but it was just too scary a situation to rely on when I'm developing 1, potentially 2 products with it.

Anyways I know somewhat OT as this is a Realmforge thread but it's what the Realmforge people are having to go through with Axiom and may make development of that a bit more hellish and slow as a result.
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Javin
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« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2005, 11:01:02 AM »

Well, I think TV will pretty much speak for itself.  Wink  Notice on GameDev.net, it's currently the #2 engine, behind Torque, and a LOT of Torque users are switching to TV now.  Scary to think that it's going to soon be the #1 game development library in the world.  *wipes a tear from his eye*  My little boy's growing up!  Sad

Edit:  It really does say something about a company's confidence in their product when their forums are open to the public and even have a place specifically FOR comparing against the competition.
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potato
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« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2005, 01:12:39 PM »

Yeah, believe me, as a n00blar I used to look beyond TV3D for engines. But no matter where I looked, eventually all roads led back to TV. It's just that good.

When the TSE _is_ finished it'll give TV a run for its money. Most developers using TV are developing games, I reckon, and having an existing GAME engine (as opposed to a graphics, physics, input, network mega-library) still has its advantages.

Then again, Torque doesn't support Delphi or .NET, which is a death blow in this day and age. I mean, of all the TV3D users here, how many are using C++ as their primary language? There's a HUUUUUGE market out there for engines supporting alternative languages, and TV is the only viable one in the market right now.
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stodge
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« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2005, 10:10:19 PM »

Quote from: "potato"
Yeah, believe me, as a n00blar I used to look beyond TV3D for engines. But no matter where I looked, eventually all roads led back to TV. It's just that good.

When the TSE _is_ finished it'll give TV a run for its money. Most developers using TV are developing games, I reckon, and having an existing GAME engine (as opposed to a graphics, physics, input, network mega-library) still has its advantages.

Then again, Torque doesn't support Delphi or .NET, which is a death blow in this day and age. I mean, of all the TV3D users here, how many are using C++ as their primary language? There's a HUUUUUGE market out there for engines supporting alternative languages, and TV is the only viable one in the market right now.



Delphi? Who cares about Delphi?     :wink:
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Waterman
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« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2005, 04:20:22 AM »

Quote from: "Javin"
Edit:  It really does say something about a company's confidence in their product when their forums are open to the public and even have a place specifically FOR comparing against the competition.

Remember what your grandmother told you: with honesty you will always do best. Especially if you are a vendor of a product, inside a market with competition. I found my own posts back from 2003 where i urge tv3d to set up honest and open information about the overall 3d engine availability (which indeed has happened, with the engine comparison forum). I even recall that DS once promised to maintain a table of engines/features, but obviously a lack of time has stopped him from doing that... Never too late though, DS :-).





(especially since i am convinced you have part of that info on your desk ;-))
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darqSHADOW
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« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2005, 11:52:11 AM »

Ahh, the new site, Waterman...  I didn't forget...  I just needed a good open forum to gather the data for me, since I am too busy to handle that part.  Wink

DS
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