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pizzayoyo
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« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2007, 05:48:32 PM » |
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Much better hearing the situation thought out like that instead of rants about 6.5 not being here yet.
I left a little comment on the site, saying:
"I am currently a beta user of TV 6.5, and I can tell you that progress is always being made. 2 years of dev time isn’t that much for a product such as this, but I can definitely understand the frustration of always being told “coming soon”. However, the devs have decided to put off TVOctree, the last “major” feature, until 6.6, which will be a minor updgrade to 6.5. This means there is only relatively small stuff left to do, so it should be released in a matter of months (a personal estimate, nothing official).
One other thing, they are selling a license to 6.xx, not 6.2, so buying a 6.xx license entitles you to be able to sell projects with both 6.2 and 6.5."
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Raine
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« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2007, 11:41:26 PM » |
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My comment got cut, and when I tried to add some more to it, it got cut as well!
Oh well. :?
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Zaknafein
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« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2007, 12:15:45 AM » |
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Uh... I'm starting to realize that this might go wild. I hope people will stay civil and respect his disclaimer. Guess I should have used my blog to link this. Not yet used to all these Web 2.0 gizmos...  |
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BlindSide
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« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2007, 01:55:35 AM » |
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Personally, I am glad you've shared this. While I don't agree with all of his sentiment, he is civilized, makes valid points and quite obviously thinks things out before writing something. I think he serves as an excellent example of what is sorely missing from many forum members.
There really is no need for a flamewar here, and I hope one doesn't start. An essential point, that I do agree with, that the author pointed out is that it's very difficult to voice an opinion on the forum and not end up with more than just discussion on your hands. Admittably I'm guilty of this as well.
I think this should serve as an example as how to properly make a point, and in such a way to allow proper respectful discussion.
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zwiglm
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« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2007, 04:48:05 AM » |
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you definitely got my back-up.
I LOVE TV3D.
And as you said 150,- is more then a bargain. even for a hobbyist.
compare to the "big" engines.
the forum is alive and living. always something new to read. etc.
the best community i ever found.
Three thumbs up.
Martin Zwigl
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Cheers,
Martin
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AriusMyst
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« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2007, 07:57:31 AM » |
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It is well written. I agree and disagree with what he is saying. Things like:
But if your product has been in a closed beta for well over two years, you are doing something wrong.
Thats just wrong. It was written from the ground up. Personally, I think the state beta is currently in is a miracle for one developer with outside commitments. An as far as i'm aware, asides from TvPackage, the entire 3D engine is just Sylvain on his own. 2 years for what we have is close to god like. I understand his frustration. There is a distinct lack of information being given to non-beta users. An the forum can be unfriendly in the type of threads he's reffering too - partly my fault as well as others. Though I wouldn't refer to myself as a "fanboy" or "evangelist". I'm the first to criticise when I think the devs are doing something wrong. I don't do it on the board cause that ends up going wrong. I do however think he's right in terms of support for 6.2. TV3D relies on its user base heavily for support. When most vets are using 6.5 the support has dwindled in the last 2 years. With a lot of threads just resulting in "this can be done in 65" or "this is fixed in 65". I think the forum degeneration was always going to happen though, regardless of wether beta was closed or not. The influx of users has come about due to 6.5 marketting and the larger the forum the more whines and flames are going to appear. I know i'm responsible for a lot of the flaming, theres not much I can do about that now. I do remember when the reg user count hit 2500. Now look at it since 6.5 has been around. Hopefully when 6.5 goes public the forum will get back to how it was. Theres not much source floating around anymore, a few for 6.5 thanks to the likes of Zak and Blind. Pretty much nothing for 6.2, which doesn't help newbies learning. |
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zwiglm
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« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2007, 08:15:18 AM » |
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AriusM. wrote
Personally, I think the state beta is currently in is a miracle for one developer with outside commitments.
That's what i meant. My advice: Don't think so much about people, who want everything for free and right now. :-) Cheers, Martin PS: I am no "evangelist" either. I just like the product. I am a SW-Developer myself, and I know how hard it is to bring something up next to other professional commitment. Anybody else who says other, does not have a clue about Software Development in general. (My opinion) |
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Cheers,
Martin
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BlindSide
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« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2007, 10:16:59 AM » |
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Agreed - being in beta for 2 years is NOT a bad thing, not for something that needs to be as flexible and robust as a high-end graphics engine. This isn't a game, this is the core layer for 3d Applications; I think people tend to forget to make the distinction. Lets take a look at Unreal 3 and how long IT was in production for - and that was with a team far more numerous than 3 guys working in their spare time.
This is not an excuse, merely an explaination. However, I do understand people being frustrated, the fact is TrueVision is a company with a product on the market, and as such people arn't going to care WHY it isn't available to them, just WHEN.
I think the mistake made here was marketing 6.5 too soon. Not that I have much expiriance in the area of market - none in fact, but with hindsight it is pretty easy to see why people get upset when they've waited two years for a product everyone though might come about a year ago. This wasn't an intentional thing I don't think - I have the impression that the developers themselves expected a release far earlier than will actually come about. But that really is the root of the problem, marketing the product too early.
It's a real shame, because the developers really are doing an excellent job. And it's also tough for 6.5 users to help 6.2 users.. I try, I try to help anyone I can. But there are times when it just simply isn't possible to do something in 6.2, or when I've forgotten/never learned about a specific aspect of the older version. I don't think any of us in beta do it in purpose, it's more just a side effect.
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AriusMyst
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« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2007, 10:25:16 AM » |
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It's a real shame, because the developers really are doing an excellent job. And it's also tough for 6.5 users to help 6.2 users.. I try, I try to help anyone I can. But there are times when it just simply isn't possible to do something in 6.2, or when I've forgotten/never learned about a specific aspect of the older version. I don't think any of us in beta do it in purpose, it's more just a side effect.
Yea, I agree completely. Its difficult to help somebody when your mind is attuned to 6.5. I often check the TVDN to make sure i've got a function right - or even just to check 6.2 has the function to begin with. Its a difficult task. |
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Rynus_Rein
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« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2007, 01:32:25 PM » |
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well, it looks like the dev's are still browsing the forums. Coincidence? http://www.truevision3d.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14491
Greetings all, I am in the process of building the installer for the 6.3 release of TV3D, which includes many updates and bugfixes from the past year. If you have any open 6.2 bugreports can you please ensure they are in the bugtracker, so that we can try and get all of these sorted quickly for the release.
On top of this, TV3D is renaming the Beta Program to the Prerelease Program -- and it will be extended across all of our upcoming products, giving our customers early access to everything before we release it into the wild. Along with this I am very close to releasing the new website, which offers more features for our community, if you have website ideas or thoughts, please feel free to PM or Email me directly, so that I can try and make the website as fluid as possible for users.
Now onto 6.5 updates... Things have been progressing nicely as of late, and the majority of bugs are now sorted. I started writing the installer last night, along with doing final compiles of the Technology Preview. I anticipate getting the TP into peoples hands shortly, we've just got some changes to make internally before that's possible, but it won't take long...
DS
_________________
TrueVision3D Project Manager
The fast and simple way of 3D development.
[note]I don't mean to upset people with this post.[/note] |
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Rynus Rein
Current Project: MapX Live, Society3D
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jmaddox
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« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2007, 01:43:31 PM » |
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The perfect product is excellent, cheap, and timely. But since we don't live in a perfect world, pick two.
Jim
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Zaknafein
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« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2007, 01:49:14 PM » |
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That sounded good. I didn't even know for sure that a 6.3 version would exist, it's great news for 6.2 users!
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AriusMyst
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« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2007, 02:05:20 PM » |
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Rynus, I was talking with Sylvain and Hypno the other day about the fabled 6.3. So yes, its a coincedence and nothing to do with this thread.  Unless the conversation we were having was a fluke. :lol: |
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darqSHADOW
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« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2007, 02:51:23 PM » |
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No, the 6.3 version has been in the works for awhile now, as has the Prerelease program... This is something we've been working towards at a rapid pace the past few weeks, and in fact Sylvain and I just finalized the timeline YESTERDAY, lol. So yes, its a coincedence and nothing more that this was posted the day afterwards...
DS
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TrueVision3D Project Manager
The fast and simple way of 3D development.
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darqSHADOW
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« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2007, 02:52:43 PM » |
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well, it looks like the dev's are still browsing the forums. Btw, we never stopped browsing the forums. I spent no less than 2 hours a day on here, and Sylvain checks the forums constantly thru the day as well. At this moment I am at the office and checking every time I compile...  DS |
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TrueVision3D Project Manager
The fast and simple way of 3D development.
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BlindSide
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« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2007, 06:24:58 PM » |
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That is something that can't be knocked, and in fact is a major plus for truevision - developer involvement with the community is second to none!
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Rynus_Rein
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« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2007, 06:33:47 PM » |
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It's the first time I hear about a 6.3 version :-).
The dev's wanted to give us a new year present I think xD
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Rynus Rein
Current Project: MapX Live, Society3D
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Dragoon
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Posts: 414
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« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2007, 08:54:23 PM » |
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No, the 6.3 version has been in the works for awhile now, as has the Prerelease program... This is something we've been working towards at a rapid pace the past few weeks, and in fact Sylvain and I just finalized the timeline YESTERDAY, lol. So yes, its a coincedence and nothing more that this was posted the day afterwards...
DS perhaps a stupid question, but is there a difference between the Beta program, and the Prerelease program, beside the name? |
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Mithrandir_
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« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2007, 09:41:33 PM » |
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What is the point of having a 6.3 release? If it is just bugfixes for 6.2 without any added features then wouldn't it be better to concentrate on getting 6.5 released?
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