School Teacher needs help

[BrianUK]

Hi
I hope this is in the right place. I want to start up a computer programming club in my school with the emphasis being on computer game development. I am a VB and Algol programmer myself but have no game development experience at all.  I want them to learn a language that will be re-usable/useful for their own development but I want the club to be fun too so a game development IDE or suchlike would be ideal? The kids are aged from 13 to 18 and are all good students (one of the older lads is going to study Computer SCience at cambridge university nextyear).The pupils don't know any programming but are good at maths. I have  $1000.00 to spend on software too!

Any advice on where to start with this would be great!! 
Thanks

[AriusEso]

Hi
I hope this is in the right place. I want to start up a computer programming club in my school with the emphasis being on computer game development. I am a VB and Algol programmer myself but have no game development experience at all.  I want them to learn a language that will be re-usable/useful for their own development but I want the club to be fun too so a game development IDE or suchlike would be ideal? The kids are aged from 13 to 18 and are all good students (one of the older lads is going to study Computer SCience at cambridge university nextyear).The pupils don't know any programming but are good at maths. I have  $1000.00 to spend on software too!

Any advice on where to start with this would be great!! 
Thanks

I would go with C#. It's light and a quick development environment. Plus, Microsoft give away a free version of the IDE called "VC# Express" - which is ideal for your purposes ( http://www.microsoft.com/express/vcsharp/ ).

Though, if you're looking for a straight up game development IDE. You can take a look at DarkBasic and BlitzBasic. Though honestly, I wouldn't reccomend them as they're not worth spit and your students won't benefit from learning to use them.

Welcome to the forum.

[Raine]

Hello Brian,

What a great project. I wish I had a game programming course at school when I was in my teens.

The CLR is not a toy and it's easy to learn it the wrong way. If you're going the C# route be sure to cover fundamental concepts such as value types, ref types, boxing / unboxing, passing param by ref / by var and what's the GC. If you need help just send me a PM and I'll be glad to write a few tutorials etc.

And like Arius said, Visual Studio Express is quite cheap, free, actually.

[Hypnotron]

and start with a simple non scrolling 2d game like 2d tank combat.  The most important thing I feel is to teach them the process of creating a game, completing the game and polishing the game before moving on to the next project.  Sticking with something until it's finish is a discipline best learned early on. 

Stress the importance of developing programs FOR people.  The best software is the software where end user ease of use is emphasized throughout the entire project cycle.  In games in particular, the end user experience from splash screen to rolling credits is law.

[BrianUK]

Wow!  Thanks for the replies and I really appreciate the advice you all have given me!   I had over 30 kids sign up for the club today so I suddenlly feel like I better not let them down!  They all admitted to be being geeks too

My knowledge of C# isn't great - in fact I don't have any

I was thinking of doing a quick theory session on programming nothing too heavy just what a quick blab on sequence, selection and iteration and what a variable and the basic types of variable.  Then I thought just to get them started I would get them making a game using Scratch (http://scratch.mit.edu/) which has all the basic elements inlcuding loops and variables.  It's all 2D too.  I thought I would set them a challenge to make a  shoot em up game like tanks that Hypnotron mentioned or something similar?  They could then try each others games out and we could have a competition or something??

The younger ones in the group might like to stay with scratch for a while longer as it is so easy to knock out a game and it has its own sprite making paint program too.  After that I don't really know - I was thinking of getting the DarkBasic Pro Academic package which has 3Ds Max and licenses for 20 seats. Or  I could start teaching VB (as I know it) and then try to hook into Truevision but I would be way out of my comfort zone.  I suppose there wouldn't be any harm in just letting them go with VC# and cross my fingers that it won't be too difficult to go from learning that to making a game.  I expect the kids won't mind to much as they could learn on the go anyway. But we could lose momentum very easily.  I really would appreciate any lessson plan ideas or tutorials!!  I will send a PM Raine - thanks for your kind offer. BTW what is CLR?

I am starting to worry a bit but I'm sure the kids will drive it themselves anyway with me just helping out where I can.

[AriusEso]

I really would appreciate any lessson plan ideas or tutorials!!

I personally don't use C#. But I found these on a quick search:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vcsharp/aa336766.aspx
http://www.functionx.com/csharp/
http://www.learn-programming.za.net/learn_cs_programming.html
http://www.devhood.com/training_modules/dist-a/LearningCSharp/?module_id=2

[nadjibus]

Well why you don't use VB then?

And good luck for your project, seems very noble 

[Aurora]

TBH, VB isnt very popular when it comes to game programming, People are actually laughing over the TV3D engine written in VB (ha ha) 

Anyways, C# is FAST to code in, but most company's still make games in C++ (basicly because all AAA engines is written in C++, not much of a choice) and then they write the tools in C# (for editors, content, launchers ect) simply because its FAST to program in (you dont want to spend too much time on creating the tools).

I spend about 3 years doing C++, but quickly went to C# when that came out simply because what i did in C++, i could do 2-3x faster in C# (or faster yet)..

Many company's are starting to see the speed of C#, so its definiatly not a bad language to learn.

And, as they guys here says, you can get up and running for the best price in the world (FREE!), so who said nothing in this world is free again ?

Just my few cents

[sybixsus]

TBH, VB isnt very popular when it comes to game programming, People are actually laughing over the TV3D engine written in VB (ha ha) 

Well laugh back at them then, because it isn't written in VB, it's written in C++.

[nadjibus]

TBH, VB isnt very popular when it comes to game programming, People are actually laughing over the TV3D engine written in VB (ha ha) 

Anyways, C# is FAST to code in, but most company's still make games in C++ (basicly because all AAA engines is written in C++, not much of a choice) and then they write the tools in C# (for editors, content, launchers ect) simply because its FAST to program in (you dont want to spend too much time on creating the tools).

I spend about 3 years doing C++, but quickly went to C# when that came out simply because what i did in C++, i could do 2-3x faster in C# (or faster yet)..

Many company's are starting to see the speed of C#, so its definiatly not a bad language to learn.

And, as they guys here says, you can get up and running for the best price in the world (FREE!), so who said nothing in this world is free again ?

Just my few cents

Like Syb said, TV is written 100% in full C++. Besides this, VB.net (not VB6) has exaclty THE SAME speed as C# (there are even some stuff VB.net is faster than C#, and vice-versa, but generally its 99% the time the same speed). VB is not bad, most persons programming with VB are bad programmers.

Just my 2 cents also 

[Raine]

Brian, feel free to contact me via PM I'll try my best to outline the basics.

In addition to the links Arius posted, there's a plain old wiki link in my signature.

[pabloescobar]

Well laugh back at them then, because it isn't written in VB, it's written in C++.

Actually, TV3D 6.3 was written in VB6. TV3D 6.5 was written in C++.

[Aurora]

Actually, TV3D 6.3 was written in VB6. TV3D 6.5 was written in C++.

Yeah, should have mentioned i ment the 6.3 version my bad

[BrianUK]

How much VB (or C#) will the children need know to get started with Truevision and game development?  Also,  does anyone know whether there is an educational license as I only have the $1000 and I suspect we will be needing other software too like photoshop or similar. 
I guess the BIG question is - is Trueveision the best way to do this or is there an alternative - should I consider the DarkBasic route at all?

[AriusEso]

DarkBasic is fine, but it's not something I would advocate teaching students. They won't be able to use it in the real world. It's a much better idea to teach them something that, if they realise they have a talent for programming, they can then use once they leave school. On the development side, you can do things for free really. VC# Express is free and so is TV3D( it only costs you money if you want to sell the stuff you make with it ).

[BrianUK]

VC# Express is free and so is TV3D( it only costs you money if you want to sell the stuff you make with it ).

How do I get TV3D for free?  I cann only see it on here for $150.00 per user license
Thanks

[AriusEso]

Yea, it can be confusing. But the licenses are only if you want to release commercial stuffs. Freeware, Hobby and educational are free. You can download the latest version here: http://www.truevision3d.com/downloads/details.php?file=28

I would also recommend using the chat aswell as this forum for any support questions. I'm in the UK also, so same timezone, so you can ask me any question in real time if you like.

I have also written a tonne of "newby" samples which have been ported to C#, you can find those here: http://www.truevision3d.com/forums/announcements/tv3d_65_samples_for_newbies-t18106.0.html

[BrianUK]

Yea, it can be confusing. But the licenses are only if you want to release commercial stuffs. Freeware, Hobby and educational are free. You can download the latest version here: http://www.truevision3d.com/downloads/details.php?file=28

I would also recommend using the chat aswell as this forum for any support questions. I'm in the UK also, so same timezone, so you can ask me any question in real time if you like.

I have also written a tonne of "newby" samples which have been ported to C#, you can find those here: http://www.truevision3d.com/forums/announcements/tv3d_65_samples_for_newbies-t18106.0.html

Those tutorials are great! Thanks. I will definitely be referring to them when we get started with TV.

[AriusEso]

NP. Btw, you're up late, isn't it a school day tommorow/today? 

[BrianUK]

Aha! Despite my username I am actually in Bahrain!!  I teach in an International School.  Still I do have to get up at 5:30 for a 7:15 start to the day