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Author Topic: tv3d vs. XNA/360/torque  (Read 5254 times)
punkouter
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« on: August 17, 2006, 12:50:43 PM »

Any comments on the announcement about microsoft to allow managed code for the XBOX 360 ?

I think I would like to try it since I use C#. It seems the only gfx engine annouced that will be used with it is Tourque.

I don't know the details of what it would take to use TV3D with the XBOX 360 but I assume that is not part of the plan.
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Dragoon
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« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2006, 04:57:40 PM »

if i remember correctly, XNA is planned for the TV3D 7.x series but don't quote me on that one
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TV3D doc (6.3):                           http://www.truevision3d.com/tvdna/
Wiki Tuts + 6.5 community doc:   http://wiki.truevision3d.com/
Uglytruth
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« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2006, 01:45:05 PM »

FYI, MS XNA Game Studio Express beta is available today for registered beta users.
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Zaknafein
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« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2006, 03:51:28 PM »

In fact, a public beta of XNA Express (no registration required) was released very recently :
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=21E979E3-B8AE-4EA6-8E65-393EA7684D6C&displaylang=en
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PowerSlave
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« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2006, 04:29:44 AM »

According to the ms foruns, other languages will be supported in the future, for example vb.net! That's good news!
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PowerSlave
punkouter
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.
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2006, 04:47:45 PM »

well to be honest it seems like this is what I should look to be learning more the next few months. Things aroud here just seem to be moving sooo slowly

Also it helps there will probably be a couple books coming out to buy on XNA

I still am a little confused.. XNA is built on top of directX and .net 2.0 ?

So is XNA just some helper class to make coding .. doing things like loading a mesh and all easier?
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phether
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« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2006, 05:09:28 PM »

don't get too excited about XNA just yet.
It is still in an early beta and there seems to be a LOT of functionality still missing.
Just thougth to give you fair warning Wink
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Uglytruth
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« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2006, 12:04:56 AM »

Quote from: "punkouter"
well to be honest it seems like this is what I should look to be learning more the next few months. Things aroud here just seem to be moving sooo slowly

Also it helps there will probably be a couple books coming out to buy on XNA

I still am a little confused.. XNA is built on top of directX and .net 2.0 ?

So is XNA just some helper class to make coding .. doing things like loading a mesh and all easier?


Lots of people are confused. XNA is the name for an entire category of technologies. The core is the XNA framework, which is the next version of Managed DirectX. It's DirectX exposed natively to managed code and provides an application framework. For example there is a Game class, that you derive your own class from in order to override Update() and Draw() and do your logic. And there are concepts such as Game Components for expansion (and 3rd party products). These could be anything from GUI to AI to Network components to supporting additional renderers. So there's more of a structure to it than previous versions of MDX. There's an implied design pattern.

At the moment, Game Studio Express is essentially VC# Express, the XNA framework, and some application templates. "Game Studio" is hyperbole. There is still the need for higher-level APIs, which is where TorqueX and TV enter the picture.

But, yes, XNA is here, don't kid yourself. Unless you're releasing by next Summer, XNA is where your development resources should be going. No question about that. Early beta now, but this is MS. Say what you will about them, but when they decide to pursue an initiative as strategically important for greater adoption of their game console as XNA is, it's time to pay attention. This is part of their war with Sony. The exteremly high barriers for entry into PS means fewer publishers, fewer programmers trained on the system, and fewer games. Games sell consoles.

The gamble is: will it be faster to wait for TV to be ported than to (ugh!) write those higher-level APIs yourself, or to investigate other products. I'm betting that if 6.5 is productive fairly soon, it could be ported reasonably quickly (since they've already re-written it from the ground up, it would just be a change to the internal APIs TV uses, in theory).

Meanwhile, what the heck *is* TorqueX? GG says it uses parts of its 2D and 3D technologies, but is based on TGE. What does that mean? I can't envision TGE being used for 3D. So the waters are a bit murky right now.
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djlins
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« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2006, 06:48:19 AM »

Hi there, I come from a history of writing my own simple 3D engine years and years ago on a DX 33 (simple clipping, rotation and perspective matrices for wireframe worlds in borland C++).

I am now back into the 3D world coding and now using TV 6.2 for my latest environment because I dont want to gamble that 6.5 will be released when my deadline hits.


Anyway I have been reading up on XNA and of course I love the idea of cross platform VISTA and 360 possibilities, but I am a little confused on exactly what XNA is?
Does XNA actually contain a 3D engine or would it be fair to say it is more of a comparison to the DirectX API where it is underlying game process functionality but you would still need a 3D engine to run on top of it?

I guess my main question is, is XNA a replacement for TV3D or is it something that could enhance TV3D projects?

Cheers,

Lindsay.
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Elgon
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« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2006, 09:29:49 AM »

Good explanation here : http://msdn.microsoft.com/directx/xna/faq/
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djlins
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« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2006, 10:11:53 AM »

Hi there, thanks for that.

Yeah I have read through it, and seeing the line:
-quote-
The XNA Framework Content Pipeline, which is a set of tools that allow developers to more easily incorporate 3D content into their games
-quote-

But when I read on further it seems to be more of a framework to wrap games development which targets 2D and 3D. This leads me to believe it is more of a way to generate and deploy games in general, and doesnt offer too much in the way of 3D engine functionality.
Also when I see the tutorials, the one to create a Cube seems to take the coding right back to plotting the co ordinates of the cube.

Is this what UglyTruth is talking about then when they say that high level functionality would need to be re written? Do you mean the loading of .X files or models and that kind of thing isn't supported?

If I am right, then it kind of means that the XNA isnt really a replacement or something you can compare with TV3D is it? It is more of like what has been mentioned i.e. will TV3D move over to support this.


I have recently bought the 6.2 license and I dont intend to move from it as I like how straight forward it is to do things, but I guess I am just curious at new tools that are coming out and what they can offer.

Cheers,

L
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phether
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« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2006, 11:39:26 AM »

XNA (and GSE) is not a 3D Engine. It is a 'easier to use than DirectX' API for 3D/2D/Audio/Input etc...

The Content Pipeline is supposed to be one of the major advantages of GSE, but it is not included in the Beta (yet)  :cry:

I do think the XNA will be the 'way of the future' for game development, but it won't be for everyone.  You will probably see a lot more 'home-brew' style 3D/Game Engines built on XNA though as it will make it easier for those wanting to build engines for sure.

While I am excited about the potential of XNA and do think it is a fairly elegant and straightforward API (compared to DirectX) I wouldn't be attempting to port your code over just yet. At least not until the Content Pipeline is included. Without it you will have a major problem trying to get your 3D Models into it!
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Red Ocktober
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« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2006, 09:30:57 AM »

UglyTruth as pretty much given the straight facts above... xna is  no panacea for most of the licensees here at the moment... unless you are familiar with dx and want to write your own game engine...


--Mike
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