TV3D vs S2 !

[gadzfilm]

Hi 
TrueVision 3D vs S2 basic or PROFESSIONAL 
C2 - www.profenix.com

[newborn]

From what I know, S2 shines from its world editor (quite insane landscape module), integrated shaders, scripting, AI... and its hybrid BSP/portal system which allows to switch indoor/outdoor with ease (very sweet).

Hope you like C++ though, as it doesn't support any other language. For me, thats a big downside since they target only a very small part of the indie industry.

Edit: I see that there is no trial or anything... thats a big no-no! How do they expect people to buy if they didn't try first?

[DarkLord]

S2 Engine looks very cool indeed, although I would prefer to try it first for a month for free, perhaps you could email them and ask for some demos to try on your system - see how it runs etc...

The problem with most engines is that they look fantastic but you need a very expensive system to be able to run the games properly!

[sybixsus]

Hope you like C++ though, as it doesn't support any other language. For me, thats a big downside since they target only a very small part of the indie industry.

Actually, the Indie version doesn't support C++ at all. It's all world editor, other tools and scripting.

I don't think I'd say that C++ was a small part of the indie industry though. While it's not my personal preference, it's by far the most common language of anyone serious about making even Indie games.

EDIT: Just spotted I missed an important "not".

[darqSHADOW]

I think the distinction comes from hobby indies vs serious indies.  Hobbyist programmers tend to stick with RAD languages -- VB.Net, C#, Delphi, etc where-as the more hardcore (ie serious) programmers go with what they know works in the "real world", C++.  I've worked at numerous game development shops and contracted for dozens of games and all were C++ based.

John

[Waterman]

Of course one could argue that there *is" already enuff C++ around. APL for example does not fit the CPU and ASM does not fit my brains. It would be naive of me to write a driver in APL.

I am lucky to have a nice "command chain":
- For my brains a highest level language (written in C++ and ASM) which
- calls a high level toolset (TV3D) which
- calls a medium level toolset (DirectX) which
- calls low level toolset (the GPU driver) which
- calls the lowest level hardware toolset.

Maybe we sometimes focus too much on the closest thing we can see, i.e. the own application language. I think something similar has been stated many times in various unlocked and locked discussion threads, hehe .

[Raine]

I think the distinction comes from hobby indies vs serious indies.  Hobbyist programmers tend to stick with RAD languages -- VB.Net, C#, Delphi, etc where-as the more hardcore (ie serious) programmers go with what they know works in the "real world", C++.  I've worked at numerous game development shops and contracted for dozens of games and all were C++ based.

John

And this distinction stems also from the fact that the "hardcore (serious)" programmers are paid to use 15 years old legacy code which has never been rewritten but only modified over time; for a bunch of reasons, it also happens to be C++.

Anyway, that's just another language discussion; about TV3D vs S2:
The FPS screenies at the bottom of the page are very nice.
I think if you need to prototype something quickly without having to code too much stuff on your own, you should use engines like S2.

[darqSHADOW]

And this distinction stems also from the fact that the "hardcore (serious)" programmers are paid to use 15 years old legacy code which has never been rewritten but only modified over time; for a bunch of reasons, it also happens to be C++.

That is not the case I was referring to.  We're talking brand new code, started in C++ with a proper base.  Most game companies work this way now, I've yet to find a paid game development contract/job that wants me to do anything but C++.

John

[JukkaKevät]

Spotted this one on gamedev:

http://www.devmaster.net/engines/engine_details.php?id=305

My quick extraction of cool features:

Includes a powerful AI System organized in multiple layers. Lower levels contain path-finding and steering behaviors and higher levels contains FSM (Finite State Machine) and hierarchical goal-based subsystem. It is possible to develop different goals and states and let AI System to combine them into more sophisticated behaviors.

Support for complex scenes featuring indoor and outdoor locations. This is possible using a hybrid system based on a bsp/portal main scenegraph structure and an octree/antiportals structure for every sector for fast geometry culling useful for big sector locations

Possibility to get the engine's source code (costly though, meant for big companies)


--------------------
www.studiohorisen.com

[pnaples]

i was one of the s2 engine developers..now i'm using tv from a week(i leaved because i'm more interested of develop games and s2 don't selled so mutch)i tried almost any existing engine but for my games i now only consider tv leadwerks and s2(pro version not available at moment)...the main difference between tv and s2 is that s2 in basic version (actually the only available)is meant for fun or prototipation purpose.
I hope that the pro version will be released from Fabio the guy that now mantain all the project as soon at least if he wants that i continue to use s2 ahaha (the main reason for later release is lack of documentation for the pro)

Cons

actually is not a real shader engine...you can only modify tha base set of shaders.
This will be changed in future or that was the plans before i leaved.
software skinning is the only way to go actually(hardware will be added in 1 or 2 months i hope.
no gamepad support.
things that was not planned in scripting are very hard, complicated and slow to do like for example key remapping and configuration(harder than whatever c++ implementation)
script is not debuggable.
Loading times are really slow because a lot of things are done at level load time.
only shader 3.0 are supported and all shaders also simpler are compiled with 3.0 path.
doesn't support dds texture are compressed at load time(slowing down level loading).
the only available render path at moment is multipass with one light per pass.

Pros

i did the fps game prototype in less tha a month with all graphic animations basic ai etc.
script is easy for everyone also non programmers.
good overal renderer quality.
ai is better than showed and is very easy to setup in script every possible ai tecnique...i tested also fuzzy state machines and neural nets(however require programming skills)
message system is really fast and powerfull also if used with object string names the way you can call functions from other objects without knowing how they internally work this really speed up prototyping and creation of some smart objects exploiting also scripting limitations(dividing a complex script on many object that sends messages earch other.
this let also to do some group ai like if ai agents really talk earch other.
But the really better thing of s2 is that all can be large scale improved it run just so smooth but it can go far better fixing some really bad things.And from what i know next realease will be optimization release if well done they can raise the performance also 500%.
planned features are shadowmapping,hdr render surfaces.


Talking about TV personally i prefere it on others for a lot of reasons.
Maybe i'll stast a thread talking about them.

[zwiglm]

Actually, the Indie version doesn't support C++ at all. It's all world editor, other tools and scripting.

I don't think I'd say that C++ was a small part of the indie industry though. While it's not my personal preference, it's by far the most common language of anyone serious about making even Indie games.

EDIT: Just spotted I missed an important "not".

The differentiation is between BASIC and PRO. PRO's got the C++ SDK (At least according to their site)

[zwiglm]

I think the distinction comes from hobby indies vs serious indies.  Hobbyist programmers tend to stick with RAD languages -- VB.Net, C#, Delphi, etc where-as the more hardcore (ie serious) programmers go with what they know works in the "real world", C++.  I've worked at numerous game development shops and contracted for dozens of games and all were C++ based.

John

True, true. But in my opinion - thanks to god - that's only of legacy reasons. There are so much software in C++. It's got a long heritage going back.
From a technical point of view (speed of compiled code, hardware, etc.) I don't see any reasons why not going with a younger programming language.

[sybixsus]

The differentiation is between BASIC and PRO. PRO's got the C++ SDK (At least according to their site)

I think you've replied to the wrong quote. That reply has no bearing on what I said. Perhaps you meant to quote the person I was quoting?

[micmanos]

I think the distinction comes from hobby indies vs serious indies.

I'd rather stick to the 'Seriously Fun Hobbyist' !!