TV3D vs A6

[korrea301]

i bought A6 this year and have been using it, there are some good things i like  about it.
and has some good features.

Renderer ...........................................................
Six degrees of freedom, multiple cameras and render views
Supports DirectX 9, DirectPlay, DirectShow, DirectSound
Automatic selection of own or hardware based T&L for maximum performance on old and new 3D hardware
Window or fullscreen mode
BSP/PVS, Portal and frustrum culling
Geometric LOD and trilinear mip mapping
Static and dynamic point, spot, and directional light sources
Static and dynamic shadows
Colored fog areas
Portals and mirrors
Vertex and pixel shaders, Cg, HLSL and asm shader languages
Bump and environment mapping

Multitexturing (up to 8 textures), light maps, detail textures
Material properties for static and dynamic objects
Animated 3D sprites and decals
Seamless indoor and outdoor support with deformable multitexture terrain
Models with mesh deformation, bones and vertex animation, animation blending  
Programmable particle and beam generators
Sky system with animated layers and backdrop bitmaps
2D renderer for still images, 2D sprites, panels, buttons, sliders, overlays, Truetype and bitmap fonts, screenshots and movies
3D views and movies can be rendered to curved surfaces, for distortion or fisheye effects
Programmable 2D and 3D effects like lens flares, bullet holes, cartoon rendering etc.
 
Game engine ........................................................
Polygon level collision detection for terrain and 3D objects
Physics engine supports gravity, mass, damping, elasticity, friction, and hinge, ball, wheel, and slider joints
3D sound sources (WAV and OGG) with Doppler effect
Slow motion / quick motion effect
Arbitrary axis rotations for space and flight simulators
Path tracking for camera, actors or vehicles
Mouse picking and manipulating of 3D objects
Save / Load system for resuming games at arbitrary positions
Multi-player client/server mode for LAN and Internet (TCP/IP, UDP)
Multizone/multiserver support for massive online multiplayer games
Expandable through DLL plugin interface
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
it also has some annoying problems as well

im curious how it stands up against the latest engine comming out TV3D 6.5
can anyone give comparison
will it be worth while to switch and how newbie friendly will it be?

[JohnPierre]

well, first off, id like to say welcome to the community, with 6.5 comming out we are getting a lot of new people, and there are still a lot more on the way.  I have been working with 6.5 for about 2-3 months now, and i can say although it is beta, it is still very user friendly.  The method of coding is very, very similar to 6.2, in fact many people have converted there old projects to 6.5 in a very simplistic manner.  As for what it is capable of, everything you listed there 6.5 is either fully capable of or about to be, plus a whole lot more.  The terrain engine alone is astounding.  I don't have brand new hardware, but the 6.2 (note, this is 6.2, the 6.5 is more optimized and has a new LOD for even more speed) terrain engine could push well over 2 million tri's on my hardware (which is decent, but definately not new) at good FPS.  In 6.5, the pixel/vertex shader support is great.  If you want, i would be more than happy to send you some screen shots of its newer effects.  For certain things like bsp/pvs, tv 6.5 has a whole new idea, where it uses TVO's (TV octree's) basically, it will be a BSP but significantly more optimized.  They are making a converter from .map files directly to .TVO.  TV 6.5 also uses the newton physics engine which is an unbelievable physics engine.  You can do things like drive a car with real physics in just a few lines of code. You can look at the screenshots, but they are not very recent, but some of the stuff i've seen done recently is simply astounding.  TV 6.5 just put a new pathfinding AI system into action as well.  I already have it fully up and running and it work great  The great thing about tv is that you can program in any language with it.  So whatever your used to works here.  It can take C++ as well as vb, delphi, all the .nets, c#, etc... Minimeshes for things like grass are excellent as well.  They are like normal meshes except if used on low poly meshes, you can have many of them with no fps hit.  I had 65,000 minimesh grass patchs on the screen and my FPS were excellent.  You can also directly access DX9 through TV so if there is anything you want to change, you are easily capable of making your own classes.  For instance i made my own render surface class cause i needed some special options that aren't normally used.  If you want, you can read through the forums for information, but if sylvain or Darqshadow post here, then they will be able to give you a lot more information.  

thanks,

jp

[nitro]

Once again TV3D wins , but no need to put such long response Jhon Pierre.

Just a thing , 3DGS wins when it comes to the speed of
prototyping a game, ro developement and easy of use.
you can have results 100 more quickly than TV3D
if we talk only about GAME MAKING.

TV3D 6.5 will be more powerfull indeed but not suited for people that want direct
results.

3DGS has already a level/Lightmapper editor, no need to pay something more to have one, script is a very easy and powerfull language,
in 5 minutes you can have a working FPS ,
not like TV3D where people must program a level editor first and put more time
for programming instead of scripting.

you can count TV3D games with your fingers, in 3DGS community there are a lot
because people have already the tools and they have all things required to make a game : they are ready to go.

TV3D is not ready to go package for making games.
but it is 100 times more powerfull in 6.5 and you'll need to program a lot more
in VB.Net or other to make simple things instead of using a scripting language.
TV3D not for absolute beginners, with 3DGS they can find scripts behaviour for
FPS and other things that they can use directly by assigning the behaviour function
to an animated  model of the level;
nothing else to do to have something playable in 10 seconds:
THIS IS THE BIG STRENGHT OF 3DGS : FAST REALLY FAST RESULTS :
what you put on your level is what you get in game.

this is not to flame TV3D just TV3D is not perfect , and no perfect engine exists
that can reproduce reality

that to users to choose : more power like TV3D that ask more programming
,  or less power and less and easy  programming ideal for newbiees or people that are more artists than programmers.


for a one/two man project 3DGS is more suited : no level editor to code, all tools
are here ready to build something playable a minimum.
in 15 min you can make a basic level and put a character that you can control with script and have an EXE prototype playable.

But if you have a team made by some programmers (more than one) , some artists: in that case : TV3D IS THE BIG WINNER.
A VERY BIG LOT MORE POWERFULL INDEAD THAN 3DGS (i confirm that) .

yes for real SERIOUS 3D games (that look professional) not just little demos made with TV3D,you will need one or more strong programmer(s) and some 3D/2Dartists.


For example a 3DGS game like this one is really great :
http://www.dreams-in-motion.com/redesign/subpages/productpages/bbrocket.htm

or this other 3DGS game :

http://www.dreams-in-motion.com/redesign/subpages/productpages/ls.htm

why can we see great games in 3DGS : because all you need to make a game :
TOOLS , SCRIPTING LANGUAGE are included in the 3D engine package you buy.
you can directly attach functions to 3D actors in the world editor and see
results by launching the level.
YES 3DGS is very POWERFULL In terms OF EASY T OUSE AND FAST RESULTS
(ideal for newbies and pure 3D artists as for advanced programmers (Dll SDK available ) )
and
YES TV3D IS 1000 TIMES MORE POWERFULL AND A GIVE 500 MORE POSSIBILIES
WITH 6.5
(but need a good solid team to make some serious game like the 3DGS ones i have posted the links here).


That's all !
i said that caus i have 3DGS and TV3D and some others and wanted to
guide newbbies or artists to the more easy way,
and solid programmers or teams to the pther way,
but newbbies could use TV3D and solid teams 3DGS why not !


well i think i will buy Unreal3 engine for chrismath

Don't talk to me about 3DGS , TV3D , Unreal2 , Doom3  or other existing
3D engine
they lot of feets under UNREAL 3 engine


you can make same things in tv3D : but you must have a strong team
and prepare to make some additionnals tools to build a game.

[nitro]

wowww my post has gone nowhere in the end ,
two lines that where bad placed

well here we are in TV3D Land no 3DGS Land : i know ,
so AeryusMYst
don't charge on me,
i just wanted to talk a little

I talk less than in the past (if you remember !

And i prefer put time in modeling /texturing  than
spending itt in forums.

[JohnPierre]

Once again TV3D wins , but no need to put such long response Jhon Pierre

o c'mon nitro, your post was much longer than mine, and gee, all i did was answer a question that requred a lot of information.

[nitro]

I posted something as long as your post !!
so the remark is good for me also: i'll post more short next time !!

[AriusMyst]

wowww my post has gone nowhere in the end ,
two lines that where bad placed

well here we are in TV3D Land no 3DGS Land : i know ,
so AeryusMYst
don't charge on me,
i just wanted to talk a little

I talk less than in the past (if you remember !

And i prefer put time in modeling /texturing  than
spending itt in forums.

edit: probably wise for me to remove what i posted originally. nitro, leave me alone, id rather not be a part of your newb posts. I have no interest in what you have to say or wether you think i've flamed you in the past. I haven't. So once again, stop it. You're a newb with sh** opinions on things an i for one am getting very tired of you especially considering the fact you keep dragging me into it. So do me a favour an f*** off back to 3dgs, 3dstate, TGE or whatever panzi ass engine you came from.

[nitro]

Well aryusmyst :
im'not not Newbbie :
My job is IT programming purely and you think i'm indee in Java, C++ or .Net i use
all the days:
5 days each week all the years in my job !

Well your attack is very very stupid this time.

i was talking about you caus you make me laught , and somewhere
i appreciated you , it wasn't an attack man.

Ok , if you think such things about me, i won't respond with attacks against
you , caus it goes nowhere.

I thaughts you also had learned some things , and i can see you have learend nothing and continue with attacks to defend yourself, that's disappointing.

Well for my part i'll wait TV7 , perhaps it will be full game oriented with great
tools like 3DGS or like the free Unreal Tournament 2 SDK.

for the moment this is more a programming tool like Blitz3D than full game SDK
package like UT2 or UT3 or HL2, Far CRY SDK or other full game SDK.

Goddbye, see you in TV3D 7 if it will be more game oriented.

I prefer to create 3D content than loose my time programming,
i'm with a team , and i'm modeler/texturer not programmer caus
i'm already programmer in my job , and
that enought and don't want to program in 3D game making hobby.

I prefer to use complete game SDK like 3DGS and the free UT2 SDK ,
and create real games than demos or programs that do nothing.

Well i won't post until a lot of time like TV3D V7 or more .
Caus for the moment the product don't suits me or the team i'm working with,
we only use real game SDK complete with tools for creating real games not
for programming pleasure or litlle demos.
(i could say little stupid demos but i won't get in the easy way like youi AryusMyst).

Asta la vista.

[nitro]

Learn to calm down conflicts in your life without attacks Aeryus Myst !
This is one most important things among others
that make yoru life better and makes you evolve better.

Tchao TV3D community.

[AriusMyst]

Well aryusmyst :
im'not not Newbbie :
My job is IT programming purely and you think i'm indee in Java, C++ or .Net i use
all the days:
5 days each week all the years in my job !

Well your attack is very very stupid this time.

i was talking about you caus you make me laught , and somewhere
i appreciated you , it wasn't an attack man.

Ok , if you think such things about me, i won't respond with attacks against
you , caus it goes nowhere.

I thaughts you also had learned some things , and i can see you have learend nothing and continue with attacks to defend yourself, that's disappointing.

Well for my part i'll wait TV7 , perhaps it will be full game oriented with great
tools like 3DGS or like the free Unreal Tournament 2 SDK.

for the moment this is more a programming tool like Blitz3D than full game SDK
package like UT2 or UT3 or HL2, Far CRY SDK or other full game SDK.

Goddbye, see you in TV3D 7 if it will be more game oriented.

I prefer to create 3D content than loose my time programming,
i'm with a team , and i'm modeler/texturer not programmer caus
i'm already programmer in my job , and
that enought and don't want to program in 3D game making hobby.

I prefer to use complete game SDK like 3DGS and the free UT2 SDK ,
and create real games than demos or programs that do nothing.

Well i won't post until a lot of time like TV3D V7 or more .
Caus for the moment the product don't suits me or the team i'm working with,
we only use real game SDK complete with tools for creating real games not
for programming pleasure or litlle demos.
(i could say little stupid demos but i won't get in the easy way like youi AryusMyst).

Asta la vista.

You've been told a million times to stop bating me in your posts. You have never produced anything publicly in tv3d. I doubt you can even code. Your posts rarely make sense and are always full of things which are outright untrue. So yes, you are a newbie. Even considering 3dgs for any purpose is stupid. This just prooves my point. If you prefer to use "complete game SDK like 3DGS" - then do so, give us all a f***in break from your stupidity an downright annoyance.

"(i could say little stupid demos but i won't get in the easy way like youi AryusMyst)."

wtf is that supposed to mean?

I've never released any demo's. I may post my code sometimes for others to look at, but thats just shows that i do actually have code. I don't think you have any, you're just a 10 year old trying to make with the big boys. An nobody has fallen for it.

[AriusMyst]

Learn to calm down conflicts in your life without attacks Aeryus Myst !
This is one most important things among others
that make yoru life better and makes you evolve better.

Tchao TV3D community.

[nitro]

Nevermind.
And if you knew my age you would be surprised

try to laught in your life , it will make it more fun Mystyman.

The more important is not what you make (3D game or other) ;
but is how much you enjoy having fun, sharing things and ideas with people
you appreciate.

i talked about demos , because there are only demos here no real selled games,
read my post i haven't said : aryus have only made demos,
but like TV3D is your main 3D engine i suppose you have no real
working TV3D game or it will have been shwon already.

Well i really leave now.

good luck to people that want to make games with TV3D;
i can bet lot of dollars ,
that it will be no games or perhaps one or two selled in 2005 with TV3D

keep dreaming .

Asta la vista looser.

[AriusMyst]

Nevermind.
And if you knew my age you would be surprised

try to laught in your life , it will make it more fun Mystyman.

The more important is not what you make (3D game or other) ;
but is how much you enjoy having fun, sharing things and ideas with people
you appreciate.

i talked about demos , because there are only demos here no real selled games,
read my post i haven't said : aryus have only made demos,
but like TV3D is your main 3D engine i suppose you have no real
working TV3D game or it will have been shwon already.

Well i really leave now.

good luck to people that want to make games with TV3D;
i can bet lot of dollars ,
that it will be no games or perhaps one or two selled in 2005 with TV3D

keep dreaming .

Asta la vista looser.

thought you were going?

seriously man, i don't think you'll be missed. You're an idiot. Tv is used all over, BBC, NASA, History Channel. It is NOT 3DGS - its intended for 3d development, not strictly games. You keep saying that TV3D can't be used for games, or that its not flexible enough or that you need a team. You always need a team, regardless of engine. You really are a moron, an for somebody that has never shown any code you just come off as a complete twat.

[mathijs]

Agree with Arius and suggests Nitro to get a life...

[mathijs]

A life far away from this forum please... :p

[JohnPierre]

lol, i think the forums will be a much more enjoyable place now, free from annoying repeditive questions, and aggrivating requests for code and tools (for the most part at least, i know there are a lot of people that want them, they just ususally have the respect to ask nicely or wait till things are complete)

[darqSHADOW]

I am not going to go thru and disect your posts, nitro, simply because it is so full of faults its not worth the time.  You have been told many times to not attempt to compare 6.5 to other products, because you do not have access to 6.5, and you have never used it.

Now, onto the points that I do want to pick apart.

no real selled games

Again, you have no idea what you are talking about.  Games using TV3D have been used as demonstrations on various channels shown around the world, including The History Channel, and The Discovery Channel.  At least one major worldwide network uses TV3D to render its weather maps.  Oh, and in case you didn't know, 2 large universities who offer game development degrees are now using TV3D 6.5 as the PRIMARY TEACHING TOOL.  Why?  Because its not a twink-engine, like you seem to want.

that it will be no games or perhaps one or two selled in 2005 with TV3D

That is a bet I'd take you up on.  Considering I know of at least 4 titles that are nearing completion, and 1 that already has a publishing deal setup.

i'll wait TV7 , perhaps it will be full game oriented

And why would we limit our customer-base like this?  That is marketing suicide.  As I've said before, 90% of our revenue comes from non-gaming related titles.  We're widely known in the simulation industry, perhaps you've seen some of the graphics on CNN for the recent titlewave?  You want to take a guess what was used to render that?

for the moment this is more a programming tool like Blitz3D than full game SDK

Hm, I guess you don't understand what an SDK is, huh?  And to compare us to Blitz3D is sickening, as Blitz is far behind us, and is geared towards only games.  You have no grasp of this industry at all, nitro, and you really need to find something else to do.

Now, onto my moderator duties...

Nitro, you need to leave Arius out of your posts.  I have told you this before, you have attacked him in every single one of your posts lately, and he has done NOTHING to you.  You need to stop this garbage.  You consistantly bring up the same points, and we consistantly have to tell you the reasons behind this.  You have NO idea what is on the project timeline, nor you do know where I have our roadmap planned to take us.  Do NOT assume anything, especially when you have no knowledge to back it with.  Now, knock it off, or I will permanently ban you.  You have not purchased a license, nor have you contributed anything useful to the community, so it will be no loss to us if you leave.

DS

[nitro]

Last word !

my target is 3D game only with SDK for 3D game with lot of tools so
TV3D not for me.

A life , yes i have a life no problem; and far away from TV3D community ?
this is just war between me and the great stupid guardian AeryusMyst
AS ALWAYS.

but yes, i go out from here , i have no TV3D project.

this has begub quite simple when i posted an answer of TV3D vs 3DGS and has become
WAR.

you all know knwo why WAR exists in the world ?

Sorry , but there are no great things made with TV3D ; and the
HIDDEN Nasa or other projects are not a proof.

I leave for better constructive things.

GOOD WAR MYST BUT WITHOUT ME (like said Eminem) !
Tchao.

[nitro]

And Myst don't forget to reply
it's your stupid duty and destiny hééééhhééhhééé

[JohnPierre]

OMG, for the billionth time WILL YOU LEAVE ALREADY!!!

Sorry , but there are no great things made with TV3D ; and the
HIDDEN Nasa or other projects are not a proof.

What are you? Fu**ing retarded???

HIDDEN doesn't mean they are unimportant or don't exist, it means that the team in not leagally allowed to divulge information reguarding it.

my target is 3D game only with SDK for 3D game with lot of tools so
TV3D not for me.

no kidding from all your incesent and repeditive posts, i would never have guessed that. you going to leave yet?

this is just war between me and the great stupid guardian AeryusMyst
AS ALWAYS.

what are you talking about? your the one who incites everything? you have been told a million times to just leave him alone, to let things be, but no, you feel the need to come after him in almost every post you make.

please just quit having your last words and leave.