Trinigy :

[nitro]

Another cool !
but price i think is not low and only for big companies !

http://www.trinigy.de/index.php?section=game&subject=intro

[e!chhoernchen]

WOAH! OO
The water is much more impressive than farcry's one  :shock:

I know some companies of them, cause theyre german

[Xanatus]

time to mention cryengine:
http://www.crytek.com/technology/index.php?sx=cryengine

Germany rulz! ;-)

[newborn]

Another cool !
but price i think is not low and only for big companies !

http://www.trinigy.de/index.php?section=game&subject=intro

apart from the visual effects that prooves that they simply use directX9 shaders, why should we be interested in that engine, Nitro? it doesnt even have physics included nor does it seem to have a community where user can exchange stuff, nor does it seem to be supporting multi languages...

I allready told you: don't base your thought on what you see! yes the water is pretty, so what? they have a good 2D artist, true, but it doesnt mean that the engine is easy to use, that the rendering has been well coded, that you'll get any good support.

[Venn_Syii]

apart from the visual effects that prooves that they simply use directX9 shaders, why should we be interested in that engine, Nitro? it doesnt even have physics included nor does it seem to have a community where user can exchange stuff, nor does it seem to be supporting multi languages...

I allready told you: don't base your thought on what you see! yes the water is pretty, so what? they have a good 2D artist, true, but it doesnt mean that the engine is easy to use, that the rendering has been well coded, that you'll get any good support.

     Heh... couldn't have said it better, newborn!  Graphics and eye candy are easy to come by these days. TV6.5 will top (According to currently planned specs, which I have no doubt will get implemented) any engine I've seen so far.  Even engines that cost 100 times TV.  I'll save you from my "time to market" rant about creating an engine of this caliber yourself... it's not pretty.
     What is not easily found is support!  Plain and simple support!  There could be an engine that could render photorealistic effect, advanced AI, networking and audio at 300fps but if you can't figure out how to use it then what does it matter.  In case you haven't figured it out yet (you == anyone who reads this) you CANNOT find better support then what TV has to offer.  

1) Almost any question I've had so far has been answered somewhere in this forum. The dev team answers posts here ALL THE TIME, They are VERY quick to answer questions
2) If you cannot find an answer to it in this forum, they have chat rooms for live direct answer to questions.... what more could you want.  Almost all other engines are exclusively forum and best case email.

With that said know this.  Our team has searched high and low, looked up and down, for the perfect engine.  We are an incorporated company that's budget is not based in the quad digit range, but rather much much more.  There are many other engines that we could have purchased licenses for without denting the budget, but it was plainly obvious to us that regardless of price TV was the choice. I would be more then happy to post the 30+ engines that we have eval kits for and have chosen not to use for one reason or another.

We firmly believe that if you look around and REALLY get into all aspects of an engine you'll find TV is leagues above the rest.

Best Regards,
Venn
NOTE: TV in this post refers to TV6.5 we are not very familiar with 6.2

[tweakbox]

I'm about to try and get graphics out of farcry or some other game that has real good looking graphics, make a cool scene in 6.5 with them, and post screenshots up here so people can see that TV has all the same capabilities, if not more, of those other big engines.  Only reason I'd have to borrow graphics from another game is because I can't create anything decent to save my life.

Yea, the screenshots look real purdy.  However, like newborn said, it only supports 1 language, and all those cool effects are nothing more than dx9 shaders that you can throw into 6.5 in a matter of about 2 seconds.

Not to mention that lack of any way to get support easily or a community, like newborn also mentioned.

[AriusMyst]

I'm about to try and get graphics out of farcry or some other game that has real good looking graphics, make a cool scene in 6.5 with them, and post screenshots up here so people can see that TV has all the same capabilities, if not more, of those other big engines.  Only reason I'd have to borrow graphics from another game is because I can't create anything decent to save my life.

Yea, the screenshots look real purdy.  However, like newborn said, it only supports 1 language, and all those cool effects are nothing more than dx9 shaders that you can throw into 6.5 in a matter of about 2 seconds.

Not to mention that lack of any way to get support easily or a community, like newborn also mentioned.

Yea, i have to agree with all of the above. Since i got beta i've been amazed by how much more advanced it is from 6.2 - its a huge leap in terms of the stuff it can do. I even noticed that the texturefonts look better and smoother in 6.5, so even right down to the basics its better. The code is pretty much identical, but i do get a better feeling of flow from it now. No more D3DVectors and so on, everything is covered by TV itself. So the workflow seems nicer as you aren't chopping about the place. I really do think if somebody was armed with a good artist they could write a game that would be up there with the likes of DooM3, Half-Life 2 and Far Cry. You'd need too code it, but thats a whole different matter.

[nitro]

hey NewBorn , i just posted the link to say : it's a cool
engine no more, i know TV3D can do the same things.

And all of you , read again the post :
it's not me that said water was eye candy or the engine was indredible !

I'm not eye candy based but more oriented easy of use and tools.

In fact any engine that allow shaders acces allow same sort of graphics like other 3D engines for water, bump specular, parallax etc...
some popular engines like
Ogre3d,Irrlicht,Crystal Space,3DGS,Torque(partially),kjAPI,TV3D 6.5 etc .....already allow great shader effects and water like Trinigy engine.

But in the list only some of them are dedicaced to game and have great tools and game support(entity classes,map editors,terrain editor,
model editor etc ... )
TV3D is not very in that part of game target.


i'm testing kjAPI another 3D engine (and i'm also unsing TV3D 6.2 with an unfinished
word editor and also Irrlicht that have some bugs in my computer with some samples ,and also two others engines  (but not torque !! i hate it !) ,

About kjAPI is not hard to program, just lack more documentation and for the moment they are buzzy writting the worl editor and have no time for it,
and the tools are here , their exporter from 3DSMAX rocks for static and animated meshes
and allow a direct preview of the model under their format under 3DSMAX before saving.
I've tested their 3DSMAX6 exporter with 3DSMAX7 it rocks.
their model viewer allow to view the model with bump map, specular, some other and also glow , that's great.
you can change the texture map , bump map or other under their viewer and also
if the bump map is made of grey color their viewer can convert it auto
to a bump map.

And what is cool , some people can participate to beta test , because they
will release the API under commercial and a free version,
If you are accepted you don't have to pay to test it, that 's to you after first release
to public to decide if you want to keep a free version or buy
a commercial to produce something.

caus TV3D Beta access is disappointing and strange :
it'll exist in free version and not a lot of people have gained acces to the beta :
the proof a lot of people have paid to access it (just read the forums posts) :
a shame !
ok it make revenues to TV3D TEam , that's great thing for them and TV3D !
it's a very cool thing for the team that made this great engine !

but they could have been more honest and frank and said :
okay TV3D 6.5 beta acces if you pay
and not more and more  selected people will have access.
actually there are only a few minority people that have gained free acces (and i'm not sure).

And the public release will be here in some months , so the beta test will be of no interest for a lot of people after fisrt public release.

And i don't matter a lot for the Beta of 6.5 , it's great ok , but some other engines
(for free or low price or open source) already allow 6.5 is doing.
I already do great shader water with other engines and also
with the cool kjAPI engine.

So Newborn i already play with shaders from a long time , not like a lot of people here
waiting the 6.5
So Newborn , i'm not impressed at all by the trinigy water , it's beautiffull effect water
to ook at in front of your monitor
independently of the 3D engine (i already do that with 3DGS, kjAPI , Ogre3D).

[nitro]

well i don't want to start another Guerilla !!
the next time i think i'll just post an URL to another engine without saying anything
or perhaps just :
here is another 3D engine for you guys , have a good fight now !

well i keep my mind open to all 3D things not only 3D engine :

For games making ( not military application or others..)
3D modellers, textures ,animators , level designers are a lot more important than engine
caus without good skills or talentued team
you can't produce quality things also with the latest 3D engine and shaders.

i actualy use some engines but i'm a lot doing modeling , animation and in these
type of forums , caus i need content for my game not a 3D Engine , i already some.

that's why any reply can't make me bad !
yes TV3D 6.5 is great, yes i don't know a lot about 6.5 beta , and i'm not interested at all about it , i prefer wait the 6.5 public release to judge.

someone have said here in the topic , the 6.5 will have a great speed with all features
at the same time like doom" engine or others ?
well the great 3D commercial engines like Doom3 , HL2 needs a lot of tricks and optimizations (projected textures etc..)  to run smooth with all features , don't tell me TV 6.5 will be at the same speed ,you are dreaming guys.
yes it will be speed etc ... perhaps , but don't compare engines that costs millions
with TV3D.

well goodnight and goodfight perhaps !

[AriusMyst]

don't tell me TV 6.5 will be at the same speed ,you are dreaming guys.

Why don't you just continue using 3DGS and leave us too it then?

[nitro]

caus i use 3DGS , and i still use TV3D (sorry for you guys) , and Ogre3D
(i've just finished compiling a little demo of me under VC++ 7 at this moment i reply ),
and Irrlicht (i had some problems yesterday, i'm still searching the problem ? my system ?)and the great promising kjAPI (very very game oriented,i have already coded
some little great things with it two days ago : bump mapping for example and that's very easy ) !

you see i don't have an exclusive 3D engine , i test and use not 1 or 2 but 5 or 6 !

But ok , i'll post only engine URL Next time !
I don't want to make people bad !
Sometimes i forgot i'm on a TV3D forum : sorry !

[houde]

I'd like to know why you're actually coding with 5 or 6 engines at the same time, doing millions of different projects at the same time... Can't you just choose one and stop saying that TV3D sucks and that there are better engines on the market? Every time you post something here you get flamed and a war starts, it's getting very boring and you don't seem to see it..

TV3D is NOT a game engine, and I HOPE it will never be one.. The fun in this engine is actually that you can do almost everything you want and it is fast in every kind of programs, not only game-oriented. Not everyone are making games you know even if 80% of the questions are about help-for-my-game. There are things you could not do with Source engine and that you can do with TV3D and some things that will be faster on Source and faster on TV3D. You seem to understimate this engine because it doesn't cost millions and it was never used to create a game that sold 10 millions of copies.. I'm sorry but they need to start somewhere, and they are starting to be known by big companies. They are getting a name in this community and it will probably be getting bigger in few years.

Engine Comparison -
You're not comparing anything, you're flaming the engine.. You give a URL and you say "look at this it rocks", but you don't compare ANYTHING with TVEngine, try to prove that it is better and stop arguing about you're f***ing tools and your map editor and your game maker because it is NOT a game engine. The upcoming tools for the model formats and the network engine will be enough for now on I think. These are all tools that are not only game-oriented. If you're so cool, make your own map editor and stop asking for the team to make one, uh?

Wathever..

[tweakbox]

Someone just ban this guy...

[denisnovak]

houde wrote :

TV3D is NOT a game engine, and I HOPE it will never be one..

Well, could someone explain to me, what is difference between "game engine" and "not game engine". I heard 1000 times how TV3D is not a game engine. But you CAN make games with TV3D. You CAN make games with other game engines. Is there something that TV3D can do and it is not a game, and other games engines can't do the same thing.

My opinion is that TV3D is game engine as other game engines on net, but differences is in fact, that TV3D doesn't (a least not now) have any level editor, mesh editor, world editor,...(officiali - developed by TV3D team) and that is not reason to put TV3D engine between non game engines.

About "how easy is to use some engine" or "how much it cost", well this is another question for some other times and  place...

Denis[/quote]

[Dan]

Denisnovak,

The difference between A game engine and a Graphics engine is easy to describe. A Graphics engine does NOT contain any logic pertaining to a particular genre of game or subject matter.

To demonstrate by example; Unreal, Quake, Doom, Farcry,  and HL source can all be described as having game engine SDK's. You could develop a game using any but the logic in the engine would be more relivent to the type of game that the SDK was released with (Normally a FPS).  Great if it's a FPS you wanting to build not great if for example you wanted an RTS.

The examples above are specific engines to perform a certain task (FPS). There are more Generic 'Game maker' type engines, that simplify the process of creating a game by including libraries to carry out Game related activities such as path finding, AI, GUI, Scripting  etc..

Truevision is a graphics engine because that is what it does, renders graphics. it doesn't contain code that limits its use to a particular subject/genre, although it does contain many helper functions to make it easier to mould to the developer requirements.
Making Truevision far more versatile than any 'Game engine' can ever be.

[BYTE-Smasher]

Graphics engines don't limit you to creating games. Game engines do. TV3D is not a game engine for this reason. It CAN however be used to MAKE a reuseable game engine. Or, if you wish, you can skip that step entirely, and just pop out a game.  Or, you can make an editor, a simulator, or a medical tool like JC did... it's also used for television production, and just general 3d tinkering.

These are just some of the many reasons why TV3D should not be limited to the title of "Game Engine".... and it is a limitation... it means you're denying a whole market segment the knowledge that they can potentially use this software to do things other than create games. I'm doubting NASA has used/uses TV3D because it can be used to make games. They use it because it's an easy to use, solid graphics engine with a great community, and a dev team that will bend over bacwards to fix bugs as they are found, and to implement the features that the majority of the community wants.... that's what TV3D is. NOT a game engine.

[nitro]

Yes , i use many engines, no i don't have many projects,
i just have only one project other things are tests.
the project is under kjAPI.
And i have a world editor remake under TV3D 6.2.
that's all.

I thaught in this topic we could put any other 3D engine URL !

if tio make people happy we must
put the URL and say : well this engine is less powerfull than TV3D !
I don't see the interest of this topic other 3D engines ?

i'm not flaming TV3D but , a lot of people here are not objective !

and to make all people happy :
yes TV3D is powerfull !!
happy now ??
(i don't know if that's true like a lot of people caus we don't have used ourselves 6.5 !!) !

[AriusMyst]

Nitro, this is for engine<->engine comparison. Not just posting links. It doesn't help that you never say anything positive about tv, except in sarcasm like your above post. I am objective. Tv has its faults, but in comparison to the others out there imo its above them. You don't go onto a company website, which is what this is regardless of us all having a laugh together an sharing info, and start slating their product. An if you do, it had better be constructive criticism. You never do this, you just say "Tv will never be as good as the far cry engine". Which isn't constructive at all. An probably very far off the mark. Thats another thing, your posts are usually outright wrong - that doesn't help with the flaming you're getting  :lol:

[BYTE-Smasher]

I think all the ! and ? are making his comments seem more sarcastic than they really are...

[newborn]

caus TV3D Beta access is disappointing and strange :
it'll exist in free version and not a lot of people have gained acces to the beta :
the proof a lot of people have paid to access it (just read the forums posts) :
a shame !
ok it make revenues to TV3D TEam , that's great thing for them and TV3D !
it's a very cool thing for the team that made this great engine Smile !

but they could have been more honest and frank and said :
okay TV3D 6.5 beta acces if you pay
and not more and more selected people will have access.
actually there are only a few minority people that have gained free acces (and i'm not sure).

I haven't heard of ANY other COMMERCIAL ENGINE letting PROSPECT CLIENTS try their BETA... Have you, Nitro?

note the simple keywords: ANY, COMMERCIAL ENGINE, PROSPECT CLIENTS and BETA...

It should be simple enough to stimulate a comprehensive answer from you. If you can point me a commercial engine that allows their client that haven't allready paid for a license, please let me know.