3DState vs TV3D

[Borys Pomianek]

Well i was just talking about the 3dstate screenshots here. I dont want to sound rude but if a teem of pros make an engine that looks on the screenshots near something that one can make with some books covering it it cant really be called a state of the art. Imho of course, I would like to see people that make things like 3dstate make tools for extisting engines. I think they would get more money and at the same time have a usablle product.

Personally i would very like to see things like the starters for torgue but for tv3d. Editing a working project is great for lerning and quick for prototyping.

BP

[MeH]

from the tv screenchots i can say:
WOW just WOW, that looks just cool, very cool i just hope it looks close to this in real games ( ye i know tv is not mainly for games ) couz that would be great.

The screens taken from TV3D are rendered in realtime, it's a WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) scenario, just as most other 3D engines are. Basically, every screenshot of TV found on this site was taken during the real thing, not rendered seperately in the way that an app like 3DSMax does.

Personally i would very like to see things like the starters for torgue but for tv3d. Editing a working project is great for lerning and quick for prototyping.

The full version of the TV3D SDK comes with samples, tutorials, etc that help send you well on your way into the world of 3D programming with TV. You may have accidently downloaded the Lite SDK setup intead. Take another look @ TV's downloads page and you'll see what i'm talking about.

[Borys Pomianek]

well i downloaded the full free sdk and there is a tutorial but there is only info about seting the compiler and about engine functions. Iam serching for something like in GS documentation. "Youre first fpp" or something like that that shows step by step what tools are used when and for what and how to make all that thing work.
If the full 6.5 have samples and tutorials covering creation of a small but working project that would be very nice, iam just wating for the money to buy the full 6.5 version for 150 $

[darqSHADOW]

Please remember you are not paying $150 for 6.5, you are paying $150 for a license to 6.x -- which includes beta access to 6.5.  There's a big difference, since 6.5 is not yet fully completed, which means there are no tutorials or samples yet, nor any documentation.

DS

[nicolas]

My opinion is that TV3D is better than 3Dstate, considering the maximum graphics quality and the amount and quality of user games/projects.

I want to give a few comments on the way people came to the "TV3D is best" conclusion here however.

*Comparing screenshots is a dangerous way of comparing engines.  CERTAINLY when you compare old 3Dstate V4 USER screenshots  (they are at V7.31 now) with new TV3D V6.5 (the newest version) DEVELOPER screenshots

*In the Atlana Screenshot from 3Dstate (the one with the billboard tree) the mountains aren't a backdrop.  They are true 3D.

*The "nature" screenshot posted here is (by accident ?...) the worst from the Atlana project.  at www.3dstate.com you can find other, in most cases better screenshots from the same project.  This project was an old V4 project.  It is years old.

*3Dstate commands are long indeed.  But amateurs can read what their function is.  If you really want shorter commands, just change the 3Dstate header files.

*http://www.geocities.com/trollene/NWTERRAIN4.html is a site from a USER project with 3Dstate.  Look for the newer V6 shots.  The oldest screenshots were with V4 IIRC.  This looks a lot better than the shots posted in this forum.

*The 3Dstate FPS screenshot is from a hurryhurry school project, graphically that game is totally not up to point.

*www.angelfire.com/hi5/olimotion.  This is another 3Dstate V6 USER site.  This game is created without any real 3D modeler, just with 3Dstate world editor, lots of patience and paint shop textures.  It is a beta.

*at www.3dstate.com, under the DEMO section, you can download a developer demo of V7.31(http://www.3dstate.com/Download/Demos/V7_Demos.zip 5 MB).  This demo wants to show the new functions in V7.31.  WHile not being a demo that aims at the highest graphic quality, it gives some nice eye candy.

In the end, I think 3Dstate is a nice engine for amateurs, compatible with several languages and often easy to use (I said easy, practical is something else).  Its speed and graphics quality could have been better, and they need someone to show potential users some eye candy at 3Dstate, cause you can make better screenshots yourself in minutes compared to those on the 3Dstate site.  TV3D seems more professional and is capable of nicer graphics, but maybe just one step too high for the starting programmer.
I would never use 3Dstate for something commercial, just for the hobby.  TV3D has more commercial possibilities I think.

[Komrad]

i used 3dstate about 2 years..i wasn't know about tv3d..3dstate isn't good because of low-performance even in c++(i am using vb6) ..Tv3d offering more oop programming style..and this is enaugh for comparing..

but i can't deny;the upcoming version of 3dstate looks nice..

[Borys Pomianek]

Well yes i can agree that comparing screenshots isnt good but it shows some things.

mostly how the team works on proper marketing.

If an engine is quite good and the screenshots are terible well thats a mistake of the team.

GS for instance has good marketing, after reading the stuff on the webpage, reading all ( i mean all with tutorials workshops and such ) documentation i was thinking it rocks. Then i worked with it for 1 week and now i think it sucks.

There was just no practicall fun ( in the for of practicall fun i mean learning that can be fun ), ofcourse it was cool that in 5 mins i had a small level and i could walk in it but the graphics sucks comparing to torgue and not even saying about tv, then there is no motivation to do any cool things in the game becouse you have to use some stupid scripting language and learn another language you wont use anywhere else. The model software that is with the GS package sucks too. all the models out of the box lookd like created from concave or  wood, it was super NoN realistic.

So Good marketing can make people think that a product is good by just writing lots of stuff about it.

If a team does not have good marketing well its theyr mistake.

Tv has good marketing and the product is one of the best, still it has marketing, not too much but some and good one.

To 3dstate i dint lookd even becouse i just have seen the screenshots and if i can make something a lot better with GS and something a lot lot lot better with tv there is no point to bother in 3dstate in my opinion.

BP

[liberostelios]

I think that there is no sense of comparing those two 3D engines. 3DState is dead! The last entry in it's site is from May of 2004. The hole story seems to be abandoned.

If you wish to make a comparison I would say these:

3DState has very good documentation and it' s easier to learn tha basics. But, with TV3D you can have impressive results with way sorter work than on 3DState. Also, it crashes 3DState on Media handling and surely is more completed. But, I think that the way TV3D works is a little... "amateur" compared to 3DState as it draws pictures which you have to refresh to make the impression of 3d movement.

[darqSHADOW]

I am working away at the marketing side of things every night, so it'll only get better.  =)  What we have now is "ok", but not great...  The new stuff is much better...

DS

[nicolas]

I fully agree that the marketing for 3DState towards single customers is a disaster, and the forum is very quiet as well.  I try to keep the life into it there, but to very little avail.
I've personally contacted the 3DState creators about the marketing issue, but very little was done to improve it.

Most of the screenshots they use are reather to very bad.  Looking at the "My worst day" and "superstockcar" games (3DState V7 and V6 resp.) already shows that users make far better looking things than marketing.

Considering "first impressions" I think 3DState is one of the worst.  TV3D has a much more slick website.  

When actually working and creating things with them, the difference is a lot smaller.  
My opinion is that TV3D can give better results, but asks a little more experience.  

If only they would realize at 3DState that the single user market is important as well, and would put some effort into creating nice artwork, things would be going better.

PS the 3DState site has new additions, but marketing to single users still is horrible.

[Javin]

Please remember you are not paying $150 for 6.5, you are paying $150 for a license to 6.x -- which includes beta access to 6.5.  There's a big difference, since 6.5 is not yet fully completed, which means there are no tutorials or samples yet, nor any documentation.

DS

 There's the TRON demo.  

-Javin

[Neuro]

where?

[Javin]

Neuro:  Come into the chat some time.  I'll send it to ya.

-Javin

[Frost]

i want too!

[jviper]

Anyone see the latest screenshots of 3DState?

[GoodVillain]

No, feel free to post them though.

[Manjinder Singh Lamba]

I had been an enthusiast of 3DState but it had very cryptic features for programming games are concerned.

 1. Single BSP only, where any object or model movement would fight for a new BSP and if a complicated model clashes with another model then the new BSP would bog down FPS of the game. Unlike modern engines where Multiple Octree's are used for collision detections, 3DState is obsolete for standards.
 2. Collision results deal with a point based system, where modern engines use Hull for returning collision with polygons.
 3. Creating Levels are very difficult with 3DState.
 
 First two major drawbacks of 3DState are the reason for me abandoning 3DState. There might be some other which i dont recall now.

 TV3D outshines many other engines with rock-solid collision results and hull based system.

[AndrewMac]

Their website is absolutely terrible.

[obi-2-kenobi]

I used 3DState for what, 1 hour? I wanted to find an engine with a good landscape creator, but when i found TV, i didn't care that it had none.

[Cleaner]

Someone actualy dared to compare Morfit and TV3D?  :lol:

This should go under "jokes" section of forum not "engine comparison".