General model texturing question

[MenDAKE]

Until I started using 6.5 my model content pipeline was pretty simple: I'd do all my modeling and texturing in 3D studio max, export to X and import directly into my TV 6.3 game. Pretty simple.

However, now that I'm using 6.5 there are numerous ways I can seriously beef up the visual quality of my models, such as bump mapping, normal mapping and shaders. However, this adds considerable complexity to the pipeline because at least as far as I know I have to apply bump maps, normal maps and shaders via code. So I can't simply create my fully textured models and use them in game, is that correct?

So how would I go about the content pipeline now? I'm creating a space game (most of the coding is complete -- just doing art now), and there are dozens and dozens of ships, space stations, jumpgates and other objects. It would be ridiculous to hard code each item with its appropriate bump maps and shaders, but how else would I go about it? Here are two ideas off the top of my head, neither of which I like very much:

1. Indicate all the shader, texturing and mapping for each ship in the XML files I already use, that describe the other characteristics of my ship. Then use that data to programmatically texture each ship. This would seem pretty complicated because there are so many shader and mapping possibilities.

2. Create tons and tons of "materials" via code and apply them to my meshes programmatically. In other words I'd create a class with a method called "HullMetal" that loads a metal texture, bump maps it and then applies a slight reflection texture. I'd create another one called "window glow" and apply that to any ships that have window lights, etc. This would also severely limit the visual diversity of my models.

Or maybe there's a much simpler way to go about this. How are you all doing projects that require tons of different models, textures and effects?

[SylvainTV]

Yea it's a little more complicated now because of all extra

One tip for example for the different texture layers :

What you can do is open the models in modelview, add the extra layers there ( bumpmap specular map, etc.) then save back the model to TVM/TVA. This way you have fewer things to do in code.

[JukkaKevät]

You might also want to consider creating some sort of .set file which links correct things together like the mesh, shaders, textures and materials. It is very handy if for example you have one mesh, but multiple different textures for it.

Then you can have one uniform way of loading vast variety of different models with different effects.

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www.studiohorisen.com

[MenDAKE]

Thanks, Sylvian. I didn't realize you can bake texture layers into TVM files. I've been doing everything X format so far, but I can see now how useful TVM is. I'll look into that.

JukkaKevät, what exactly is a ".set" file? Sounds like an interesting option.

[JukkaKevät]

Its a custom text file I use. You can name it anyway you prefer like .model

Basically my workflow how I've cooked it up so far is that I load everything needed for one scenario from .list files, all the different models, textures, etcetera. The files are as they are named: list of things. All the assets in them are loaded without thinking. Then the .set links different elements together like cratemesh + wood, cratemesh + metal + metalshader, you get the point. I haven't really carved my content flow into stone yet so this might change, but so far so good. 

This is just an example, you should always search for a solution best suited for your needs.

Edit: sorry I just now read your first post fully. Yes, basically inject the new information into the xml would be my suggestion. I don't see why you take the different possibilities as a problem as this is exactly what it solves imo.

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www.studiohorisen.com

[MenDAKE]

The reason I look at the XML method as a "problem" is that it just sounds very tedius compaired to the method I'm used to of simply creating a model in 3D studio max and importing it. I guess I still have to describe some of the characteristics of each game object via XML, but the concept of describing each graphical element adds a whole new level of complication. But if that's the only way to do it then it most certainly can be done. I suppose it will help to do with Sylvian said because then I won't have to include every single visual detail in the XML description.

[JukkaKevät]

Have you considered to include the shader in Studio Max and then making a small script that writes the metadata (name of the shader and it's parameters) as Studio Max can utilize DX shaders too.

You still would have to copy/paste the metadata into the xml or use some sort of automatisation for it.

It's a bit of a work to get working properly and you would still need to open each of the already exported models again in Studio Max or add the new info manually.

No candy is free I'm afraid.

edit: aaiiiee, what am I talking about? The modelview can inject the shader information into the TVM/TVA file... dumb me...

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www.studiohorisen.com

[WEst]

It would be a lot easier if the Max-Exporter would be able to fill all texture stages with textures in max and not only diffuse.

Is it possible to add this to the plugins?

[MenDAKE]

aaiiiee, what am I talking about? The modelview can inject the shader information into the TVM/TVA file... dumb me...

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www.studiohorisen.com

Yeah, I'm starting to realize a lot can be accomlished with the model viewer and TVM files. I'm going to look into that a bit more and see if I can simplify the process as much as possible.

[Craigomatic]

It would be a lot easier if the Max-Exporter would be able to fill all texture stages with textures in max and not only diffuse.

Is it possible to add this to the plugins?

This would be really appreciated from our team also, as we must use .x fileformat and would love to avoid the intermediary step of manually adding maps between industry tools (3dsmax) -> our app (tv3d).

Does the .x format support bumpmap/normalmap?

[SylvainTV]

The main problem is that .X format is very simple and doesn't allow multiple texture layers.
And our exporter is based on the .X exporter

However we added a "lightmap" layer possibility for TVM exporting. I believe that it could be possible to add a bumpmapping and specular map layer exporting. Would really be easier
But you have to remember that the all maps will have to use the same UV channel (Lightmap is an exception)